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Thread: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    By your reasoning, the US would then be responsible for the killing of innocent civilians by all those that we have provided funding to. In which case, we would be a bigger threat to innocent civilians around the world than Iran.
    It's not just funding that makes the difference. But to answer what I think is the important part of your question:

    If we supply arms to someone knowing full well what they're going to do with them then, yes, we're responsible. And we have a dark history when it comes to that subject. The CIA did some pretty nasty things during the Cold War to keep Russian influence at bay. You might also look up Operation Ajax (1953).

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    From your article, from the Israeli National News source:

    "A poll released Thursday said that 81% of Israelis oppose a solo Israeli attack against Iran."

    Isn't that what Adam's poll said?
    I wasn't denying that - but the article I cited has a little more information on the subject. For example, is really wasn't clear in his article if the Israeli's were in America or Israel, which is why I went looking for a better source. I found a better source, I posted it. Are you complaining?


    Ed:
    With Iranian nuclear knowledge it's not just "innocent civilians" at risk, it's a whole country full of innocent civilians. Actually, it's two countries full because sure as hell if a nuke is hand delivered into Israel by some terrorist you can bet Israel will bomb Iran and ask questions later.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-02-12 at 03:15 AM.
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It's not just funding that makes the difference. But to answer what I think is the important part of your question:

    If we supply arms to someone knowing full well what they're going to do with them then, yes, we're responsible. And we have a dark history when it comes to that subject. The CIA did some pretty nasty things during the Cold War to keep Russian influence at bay. You might also look up Operation Ajax (1953).
    Or, our support to Saddam in attacking Iran.

    I wasn't denying that - but the article I cited has a little more information on the subject. For example, is really wasn't clear in his article if the Israeli's were in America or Israel, which is why I went looking for a better source. I found a better source, I posted it. Are you complaining?

    No, not at all. It provides backing for my position, thanks!

    Ed:
    With Iranian nuclear knowledge it's not just "innocent civilians" at risk, it's a whole country full of innocent civilians. Actually, it's two countries full because sure as hell if a nuke is hand delivered into Israel by some terrorist you can bet Israel will bomb Iran and ask questions later.
    Since Iran has not indicated in the past they have a death wish, I have no reason to believe they would become suicidal if they have a nuclear weapon. In the absence of nuclear disarmament by all nations, I actually think it would make the region more secure if Iran had nuclear weapons, as Iran would have less reason to be frightened into taking irrational actions against Israel.
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Since Iran has not indicated in the past they have a death wish, I have no reason to believe they would become suicidal if they have a nuclear weapon. In the absence of nuclear disarmament by all nations, I actually think it would make the region more secure if Iran had nuclear weapons, as Iran would have less reason to be frightened into taking irrational actions against Israel.
    You might want to read more about Islamic/Jewish relations and history, especially just after WWII, before you go too far down that road.

    But you've again missed the point. I'm not convinced Iran's nuclear knowledge and/or weapons would remain in Iran. If they thought they could get away with it they just might nuke Tel-Aviv by proxy; And considering YOUR viewpoint, that they're not responsible for Hamas et al, they just might think they can get away with it. I doubt they're stupid enough to launch a missile from Iran, which it seems is the only possibility you're considering.
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You might want to read more about Islamic/Jewish relations and history, especially just after WWII, before you go too far down that road.
    If we are talking about potential threat based on the past, none can hold a candle to the US. We are responsible for more civilian deaths in modern history than is Iran.

    But you've again missed the point. I'm not convinced Iran's nuclear knowledge and/or weapons would remain in Iran. If they thought they could get away with it they just might nuke Tel-Aviv by proxy; And considering YOUR viewpoint, that they're not responsible for Hamas et al, they just might think they can get away with it. I doubt they're stupid enough to launch a missile from Iran, which it seems is the only possibility you're considering.
    That's the case for any country with nuclear weapons. Are we going to strike all countries with nuclear weapons because of the possibility that terrorists could get their hands on a nuclear bomb from that country?

    What if Israel decides to smuggle a nuclear bomb into Iran? What if the US decides to smuggle a nuclear bomb into Iran? What if Pakistan decides to smuggle a bomb into Iran to make everyone think that Israel/US was behind it.

    As long as there are tens of thousands of nuclear weapons around the world, there is always going to be possibility that somebody could get access to one that shouldn't have access.

    Unless all the superpowers are prepared to follow through with the nuclear disarmament requirements and Israel is prepared to disarm its nuclear arsenal, it is unrealistic to think that the non-nuclear states are going to abide by the agreement.
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That would make you very old now if you were old enough to remember it! Pretty sure the old units had a UN flag.

    But aren't there US forces still in S.Korea or has the world moved on without me?
    I think they fly the US flag. I once visited a US base, before I went to the US briefly. They flew the US flag. I think there aren't other foreign bases here, certainly no UN bases. That, and the South Korean flag too next to the US ones
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I really think you ought not presume my reasoning. Frankly, you putting words in my mouth is laughable.
    here's a chance to actually offer something yourself, then. show us what EVIDENCE you have to support the claim that iran is funding, supplying and training terrorists in iraq that target Americans
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Perhaps he meant 'Americans'. The Iranian army/super-guard funds, supplies and trains terrorists in Iraq that target Americans as well as civilians. That's a fact, right? 'American interests' could also work regarding Hez, Hamas and who knows what in Africa and Pakistan.
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If we are talking about potential threat based on the past, none can hold a candle to the US. We are responsible for more civilian deaths in modern history than is Iran.
    You just don't get it and I guess you never will. I'm happy that your personality is such that you never have and never will hold a grudge. You've lived a charmed life indeed never to have been PO'es at anyone.

    (Ed: Yes, if anything that makes the US a big target for revenge - and, indeed, we are exactly that in some parts of the world. Thank you for proving my point.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's the case for any country with nuclear weapons. Are we going to strike all countries with nuclear weapons because of the possibility that terrorists could get their hands on a nuclear bomb from that country?

    What if Israel decides to smuggle a nuclear bomb into Iran? What if the US decides to smuggle a nuclear bomb into Iran? What if Pakistan decides to smuggle a bomb into Iran to make everyone think that Israel/US was behind it.

    As long as there are tens of thousands of nuclear weapons around the world, there is always going to be possibility that somebody could get access to one that shouldn't have access.

    Unless all the superpowers are prepared to follow through with the nuclear disarmament requirements and Israel is prepared to disarm its nuclear arsenal, it is unrealistic to think that the non-nuclear states are going to abide by the agreement.
    I'm not talking about someone stealing a bomb (or the material to make one), I'm talking about Iran handing one over (or the material to make one) for use against a specific target. Israel isn't out to take control of Iran because the Jews once controlled that part of the world. The same cannot be said in return. Islam once ruled the area where Israel is now and Iran wants the Jews out of there. Like I said, READ SOME HISTORY. Until then it's useless to talk to you about it.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-02-12 at 10:49 AM.
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You're actually THERE so if you don't mind answering:
    Do the US forces over there fly the UN flag or just the US flag or ...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    Well, I wasn't alive back in the 1950s....so.....
    I do not think a person needed to be alive in the 1950's to know which flags fly with US forces in South Korea.


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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Great work - Thanks, Connery! (I swear I'm still stupid sometimes when it comes to the Net.)

    UN flag right next to the US flag.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here's a chance to actually offer something yourself, then. show us what EVIDENCE you have to support the claim that iran is funding, supplying and training terrorists in iraq that target Americans
    Let's do this your style. Prove they are not or I'm just gonna have to stick with the facts.

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