Page 56 of 80 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast
Results 551 to 560 of 796

Thread: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

  1. #551
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Strange that there were no complaints, only compliments, after the Israeli Air Force raid in 1981 that completely destroyed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak!
    That fit with US interests at the time.

    To a certain extent it looks like Obama wants it both ways, if Israel strikes Iran and is successful then he will be happy, but if not he'll say:"See? I warned you!"
    I don't think Obama sees a successful outcome if Israel strikes Iran. Most experts predict it would create such turmoil there that oil prices would go so high that it would be devastating for the world economy. He, nor the country need another war in the middle east. We haven't paid for the last two wars over there, nor Vietnam for that matter.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #552
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Do you have link when the UN made the decision that Iran was in violation of the treaty?
    Note Article 3 of NPT:

    http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Doc...infcirc140.pdf

    Starting in 06, though there is stuff by the IAEA prior to this:

    http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Doc...gov2006-14.pdf

    Then the UN Security Counsel Resolutions in response (06-11):

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N07/281/40/PDF/N0728140.pdf?

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    Edit: Don't feel like fixing the text in the links, but they all take you were they should.
    Last edited by drz-400; 02-28-12 at 10:51 PM.

  3. #553
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Note Article 3 of NPT:

    http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Doc...infcirc140.pdf

    Starting in 06, though there is stuff by the IAEA prior to this:

    http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Doc...gov2006-14.pdf

    Then the UN Security Counsel Resolutions in response (06-11):

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N07/281/40/PDF/N0728140.pdf?

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    ODS HOME PAGE

    Edit: Don't feel like fixing the text in the links, but they all take you were they should.

    This was very helpful:

    "There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link,
    - Through your internet options, adjust your privacy settings to allow cookies or
    - Check your security settings and make sure this site has not been blocked or
    - You are probably using a very slow link that may not work well with this application.
    Otherwise you have reached this site through unauthorized means."

    But do you have link when the UN made the decision that Iran was in violation of the treaty?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #554
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    This was very helpful:

    "There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link,
    - Through your internet options, adjust your privacy settings to allow cookies or
    - Check your security settings and make sure this site has not been blocked or
    - You are probably using a very slow link that may not work well with this application.
    Otherwise you have reached this site through unauthorized means."

    But do you have link when the UN made the decision that Iran was in violation of the treaty?
    Go to this site:

    UN Security Council: Resolutions 2011

    click on one of the resolutions. Now all of my links should work for you. Or you can look up the relevant resolutions yourself. Not sure why copying and pasting the links did not work.
    Last edited by drz-400; 02-28-12 at 11:28 PM.

  5. #555
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Would you agree that sanctions from the Security Council qualify? I can't imagine Russia or China, both of which are friends of Iran, allowing sanctions if there were no violations.

    Sanctions Committee - 1737
    I could not find any NPT violations referenced.
    Which is why I asked if you would agree that there were violations given these sanctions from the Security Counsel. I'll take your response as a 'No' and continue to wonder why else you think Russia and China would sanction a business partner.

    But EagleEye found and posted what I did not. I trust his evidence is good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We can still easily bring more force to bear from Israel and our current bases on Iran than they could defend against.
    That could be said for most of the countries in the world - and we don't even need the Israeli addition you made.

    But the map you referenced doesn't show troop numbers in those bases or types of military forces. (For example, a naval resupply base of 10,000 is not a military threat compared to 10,000 Marines.) Without military data such maps are useless for proving any level of military power or aggressive intent.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-29-12 at 12:54 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #556
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Go to this site:

    UN Security Council: Resolutions 2011

    click on one of the resolutions. Now all of my links should work for you. Or you can look up the relevant resolutions yourself. Not sure why copying and pasting the links did not work.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Which is why I asked if you would agree that there were violations given these sanctions from the Security Counsel. I'll take your response as a 'No' and continue to wonder why else you think Russia and China would sanction a business partner.

    But EagleEye found and posted what I did not. I trust his evidence is good enough?

    That could be said for most of the countries in the world - and we don't even need the Israeli addition you made.

    But the map you referenced doesn't show troop numbers in those bases or types of military forces. (For example, a naval resupply base of 10,000 is not a military threat compared to 10,000 Marines.) Without military data such maps are useless for proving any level of military power or aggressive intent.
    The link worked that time, thanks drz!

    Gentlemen, what you reference are related to protocol, not military threat to the US, which is what my original request was for.

    This is evidenced by the measures proposed by the Security Council in response. From your link Mo:

    "# a proliferation-sensitive nuclear and ballistic missile programmes-related embargo;
    # a ban on the export/procurement of any arms and related materiel from Iran and a ban on the supply of the seven categories, as specified, of conventional weapons and related materiel to Iran;
    # a travel ban and an assets freeze on designated persons and entities. The assets freeze also applies to any individuals or entities acting on behalf of, or at the direction of, the designated persons and entities, and to entities owned or controlled by them."



    Nothing in there I can find about the need for a military strike on Iran.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #557
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The link worked that time, thanks drz!

    Gentlemen, what you reference are related to protocol, not military threat to the US, which is what my original request was for.

    This is evidenced by the measures proposed by the Security Council in response. From your link Mo:

    "# a proliferation-sensitive nuclear and ballistic missile programmes-related embargo;
    # a ban on the export/procurement of any arms and related materiel from Iran and a ban on the supply of the seven categories, as specified, of conventional weapons and related materiel to Iran;
    # a travel ban and an assets freeze on designated persons and entities. The assets freeze also applies to any individuals or entities acting on behalf of, or at the direction of, the designated persons and entities, and to entities owned or controlled by them."



    Nothing in there I can find about the need for a military strike on Iran.
    The need for a military strike? If you're looking for that kind of documentation you won't find it anywhere. In fact, I doubt you will find what would be called "verifiable documentation" for it from anyone until well after the fact - if you ever find it at all.

    As a learning exercise you might try to find verifiable UN documentation "about the need for a military strike on Iraq" in 1990 after it invaded Kuwait. UN Resolution 660 condemns the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait but mentiones nothing about a military solution to the problem - so if you find such documentation please provide a link because 10 minutes of searching turned up zip.


    Ed:
    Or are you saying we should have just let Kuwait remain under Iraqi rule indefinitely?


    No, your original request was for:
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Do you have link when the UN made the decision that Iran was in violation of the treaty?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-29-12 at 04:50 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #558
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The need for a military strike? If you're looking for that kind of documentation you won't find it anywhere. In fact, I doubt you will find what would be called "verifiable documentation" for it from anyone until well after the fact - if you ever find it at all.
    Exactly, we should learn from the mistakes made in taking the country to war with Iraq in 2003.

    As a learning exercise you might try to find verifiable UN documentation "about the need for a military strike on Iraq" in 1990 after it invaded Kuwait. UN Resolution 660 condemns the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait but mentiones nothing about a military solution to the problem - so if you find such documentation please provide a link because 10 minutes of searching turned up zip.


    Ed:
    Or are you saying we should have just let Kuwait remain under Iraqi rule indefinitely?
    If merited at all, just as in 2003, it should have been a NATO action or by others in the region. Perhaps hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians would not have had to die, nor the terrorist attack on 9/11, and consequently the war on terror that followed.





    No, your original request was for:
    This was my original post in this thread on the subject, in response to a post by Mya:

    Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Iran and Iraq = apples and oranges

    "In regards to military threat to the US they are peas in a pod."
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-29-12 at 06:09 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #559
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Exactly, we should learn from the mistakes made in taking the country to war with Iraq in 2003.
    I won't argue with the stupidity of the recent Iraqi war - but if we do anything militarily to Iran it won't be a ground war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If merited at all, just as in 2003, it should have been a NATO action or by others in the region. Perhaps hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians would not have had to die, nor the terrorist attack on 9/11, and consequently the war on terror that followed.
    I'm not understanding what you're saying here at all.
    The 1991 Iraqi War was under a UN flag if I recall correctly - as was Bosnia a few years later.




    I did finally find the UN document that "authorized" the Iraqi war in 1991. It's as close as they ever get to mentioning anything military. Resolution 678:

    ODS HOME PAGE - UN.org
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-29-12 at 06:46 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #560
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    [QUOTE=MoSurveyor;1060247491]
    I won't argue with the stupidity of the recent Iraqi war - but if we do anything militarily to Iran it won't be a ground war.
    No one predicted we would have ground troops in Iraq for almost a decade. Striking Iran militarily would be an act of war and one cannot predict how it will end. Our invasion of Iraq in 2003 was preceded by an air strike in 1998.

    I'm not understanding what you're saying here at all.
    The 1991 Iraqi War was under a UN flag if I recall correctly - as was Bosnia a few years later.

    I did finally find the UN document that "authorized" the Iraqi war in 1991. It's as close as they ever get to mentioning anything military. Resolution 678:

    ODS HOME PAGE - UN.org
    Your link didn't work for me so I looked up Resolution 678, and found this: Security Council resolution 678 (1990) on the situation between Iraq and Kuwait

    You are right, it does authorize military action against Iraq in 1991. I stand corrected there, thanks! However, there was no such authorization of force by the UN for our invasion of Iraq in 2003, nor any that I have found for an attack on Iran.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Page 56 of 80 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •