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Thread: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

  1. #151
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    The US has been concerned about Iran's nuclear program since 2003. This event is probably the most insignificant in the entire timeline. Where have you been?
    Lets see, as a teenager, I was watching for over a year while Irannian zealots held our embassy staff hostage and our so-called president did almost nothing about it. BTW, there have been several articles which have clarified the fact that their current "President" was indeed one of the hostage takers.

    Later I was flying surveilance missions over Saudi Arrabia as part of the US helping stop the Iran-Iraq war from spilling into other countries and on occasion getting chased around the skies by Iranian F-4s. I was watching Iranian aircraft attempting to make ship attack runs on US Naval ships. I was watching Iran threaten US flaged tankers and US Naval vessels in the Straights of Hormuz. I was watching as the US President that time didn't back down but parked a US Battleship in the middle of the Straights and told the Iranians that if they really wanted things that way, then go ahead and shoot, The Iranians backed down very fast. Amazing how good that deplomacy worked in dealing with these extremist, seems even a zealot might listen and honestly negotiate with 16 inch guns pointed at them.

    After that, I was in skies of Bosnia-Herzegovina when Iran sent in kill squads and tried to disrupt US and UN efforts to establish peace. I also saw the so-called President at the time tell one of our few ture friends and allies in the world that they should give up full autonomy over land they conquered when the peoples of that area had previously attacked them repeatedly. And what do you know, there is the very same Iran funding and supplying some of those very same terrorist attacking that same friend and ally.

    Later, I was in the skies of Iraq, finally helping remove a vile evil person from power and taking away his ability to kill his own people with WMDs and threatening his neighbors. Only to have Iran fund and supply insurgents killing American troops trying to rebuild that country afterwards. I watched as the US President at that time was almost powerless to act against Iran because the military his predessor left him, which was supposed to be able to fight at least one Major conflict and one Minor conflict simultaneously, was bogged down and struggling with two minor conflicts because the previous so called President had left it poorly maintained, equiped and with Generals/Officers who were masters at kissing a poloticians backs side but couldn't actually lead our forces to fight their way out of a wet paper sack.

    Afer that, I watched Obama try to persue the same failed diplomatic tactics that Clinton tried to use to prevent North Korea from getting Nuclear Weapons while telling our friend and ally Isreal to give back land it took as a bufferzone the previous time Arabs became agressively hostile. And yes, those tactics were a failure, witness the fact that North Korea now has Nuclear weapons. Of course, no in the world would actually believe Obama if he tried Reagon's style of negotiation, few in world could conceive that Obama would actually have the intestinal fortitude to pull the trigger and it would just be an empty threat. Instead, he makes nice pretty speeches about how he is doing something and it will work while telling Isreal, one of our truest and most loyal allies in the world, to make concessions to placate Iran and the "muslim" world.

    Reagon should of given the Liberals the finger and went ahead and took these bastards out then. Carter didn't have the guts, and thanks to him Reagon didn't have the ability at first, to do it when it should of been done. George H. Bush also passed up the opportunity, he could of easily taken out that evil bastard Hussein and Iran and would of been more than justified to do so. Then came Clinton who also didn't have the guts to do what should of been done, screwed over the military and let North Korea, another enemy, get nuclear weapons. Clinton's gutlessness and unwillingness (later, inability after he gutted the military) directly lead to Al Queda being able to form, build and later carry out the 9/11 attacks because he didn't take decisive, effective actions against Al Queda when they were attacking our embassies, ships and interests, causing George W. Bush to have to deal with them. Clinton also failed to take action to keep the WMD inspectors in Iraq (he didn't get caught diddling someone other than his wife that month) which caused the intelligence failure that led to the invasion of Iraq (something that should of been done and over during George H. Bushes time). G. W. also should of used his time to rebuild our military and give it the leadership it needed and went ahead and taken these idiots out also.

    So where have I been, I have been spending 30+ years watching Iran declare itself a mortal enemy and US leadership not do the proper thing and take them out. I have been watching US Presidents attempt to screw over friends and allies and tolerate repeated provocations from Iran just to placate an enemy. I have been watching Iran give support and equipement to terrorist who have attacked our people and our interests and kill the people of one of our few true friends and allies. (not to mention them trying on several occasions to kill me personally) I have absolutely no faith that Obama will finally grow a pair and do what is right and necessary, more likely Isreal will have to take action on it's own because the Nation that it has befriended and shown loyality to elected a gutless blunder who doesn't even understand the concepts of ture friendships and loyality, much less be willing to act out of those setinments. I have little to no doubt that Obama will instead of supporting Isreal, he will again try to screw them over and if they initiate actions themselves, he will probably try to deny them military supplies in a useless attempt to placate and enemy instead taking out that enemy. I also have little to no doubt that should Iran actually develope a nuclear weapon, they will field test it over Tel Aviv as quickly as they can get it there.

  2. #152
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Reagon should of given the Liberals the finger and went ahead and took these bastards out then.
    This is complete false. Reagan would have said it wasn't our business.

    Uh.....John.....have you forgotten that Reagan not only negotiated with the Iranians, he sold them weapons? It was a minor little thing called the Iran-Contra scandal, you might have heard of it. Perhaps you don't recall that the whole thing began as an attempt to ply "moderate" Iranians into pressuring Hezbollah to release six American hostages. Not only did Reagan "negotiate with terrorists", he actually traded arms for hostages.

    And while we're at it, let's talk about all this ignorant blather we hear from Bush apologists about how withdrawing from Iraq would be "cutting and running" and how their hero Ronald Reagan would never have done that. On October 23, 1983, a suicide bomber attacked US military barracks in Lebanon killing 241 servicemen. Reagan immediately pledged to keep US military in Lebanon. Vice President Bush declared that the US "would not be cowed by terrorists." Caspar Weinberger said there would be no change in American policy.

    Reagan the Appeaser : Dispatches from the Creation Wars

    You can look up what happened in Lebanon to know this is true.

    And you can follow his foreign policy efforts to know he largely opposed interfering.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    One was a cadet ship and the other was a supply ship.. Hardly a cause for alarm.
    I never said it was a cause for alarm, after all, they are Irannians, not quality military forces.

    But whether they are a flagged warship maned by cadets or the most experienced men available, it is still a flagged military vessel and moving it into place to potentially threaten another country is still a hostile act and if they should actually enter Israel's waters and attempt to disrupt Israel's conduct of internal affairs, then it is an Act of War. Cadet and supply ship or their most capable units doesn't make a difference.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This is complete false. Reagan would have said it wasn't our business.

    Uh.....John.....have you forgotten that Reagan not only negotiated with the Iranians, he sold them weapons? It was a minor little thing called the Iran-Contra scandal, you might have heard of it. Perhaps you don't recall that the whole thing began as an attempt to ply "moderate" Iranians into pressuring Hezbollah to release six American hostages. Not only did Reagan "negotiate with terrorists", he actually traded arms for hostages.

    And while we're at it, let's talk about all this ignorant blather we hear from Bush apologists about how withdrawing from Iraq would be "cutting and running" and how their hero Ronald Reagan would never have done that. On October 23, 1983, a suicide bomber attacked US military barracks in Lebanon killing 241 servicemen. Reagan immediately pledged to keep US military in Lebanon. Vice President Bush declared that the US "would not be cowed by terrorists." Caspar Weinberger said there would be no change in American policy.

    Reagan the Appeaser : Dispatches from the Creation Wars

    You can look up what happened in Lebanon to know this is true.

    And you can follow his foreign policy efforts to know he largely opposed interfering.
    Many Americans don't understand the details of US history in the ME.. They just want to hit the sound bites.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I never said it was a cause for alarm, after all, they are Irannians, not quality military forces.

    But whether they are a flagged warship maned by cadets or the most experienced men available, it is still a flagged military vessel and moving it into place to potentially threaten another country is still a hostile act and if they should actually enter Israel's waters and attempt to disrupt Israel's conduct of internal affairs, then it is an Act of War. Cadet and supply ship or their most capable units doesn't make a difference.
    Its not a hostile act to move a couple of old ships into the Mediterranean unless you have a chip on your shoulder.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    phobia -

    "Extreme and irrational fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation. A phobia is classified as a type of anxiety disorder (a neurosis), since anxiety is its chief symptom. Phobias are generally believed to result when fear produced by an original threatening situation (such as a near-drowning in childhood) is transferred to other similar situations (such as encounters with bodies of water), the original fear often being repressed or forgotten. Behaviour therapy can be helpful in overcoming phobias, the phobic person being gradually exposed to the anxiety-provoking object or situation in a way that demonstrates that no threat really exists."

    Irrational fear definition of Irrational fear in the Free Online Encyclopedia.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I never said it was a cause for alarm, after all, they are Irannians, not quality military forces.

    But whether they are a flagged warship maned by cadets or the most experienced men available, it is still a flagged military vessel and moving it into place to potentially threaten another country is still a hostile act and if they should actually enter Israel's waters and attempt to disrupt Israel's conduct of internal affairs, then it is an Act of War. Cadet and supply ship or their most capable units doesn't make a difference.
    I certainly am familiar with your version of ME history.. and I get very clearly that you served our country... (Thank you BTW) but its not so simple.. Israel has a great deal to answer for... especially as it concerns their relationship with the US.

    They have run obstructionist against US interests since the 1940s.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Many Americans don't understand the details of US history in the ME.. They just want to hit the sound bites.
    And living in Saudi Arabia and shagging a few locals doesn't qualify as "knowledge" of the history of the ME, either. Your defense of the indefensible practices of that backwards rot-gut of the planet is indefensible.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    And living in Saudi Arabia and shagging a few locals doesn't qualify as "knowledge" of the history of the ME, either. Your defense of the indefensible practices of that backwards rot-gut of the planet is indefensible.
    Any chance you're letting emotion skew your view? I think it is good to questions our beliefs, especially when they are strongly held.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    So where have I been, I have been spending 30+ years watching Iran declare itself a mortal enemy and US leadership not do the proper thing and take them out. I have been watching US Presidents attempt to screw over friends and allies and tolerate repeated provocations from Iran just to placate an enemy. I have been watching Iran give support and equipement to terrorist who have attacked our people and our interests and kill the people of one of our few true friends and allies. (not to mention them trying on several occasions to kill me personally) I have absolutely no faith that Obama will finally grow a pair and do what is right and necessary, more likely Isreal will have to take action on it's own because the Nation that it has befriended and shown loyality to elected a gutless blunder who doesn't even understand the concepts of ture friendships and loyality, much less be willing to act out of those setinments. I have little to no doubt that Obama will instead of supporting Isreal, he will again try to screw them over and if they initiate actions themselves, he will probably try to deny them military supplies in a useless attempt to placate and enemy instead taking out that enemy. I also have little to no doubt that should Iran actually develope a nuclear weapon, they will field test it over Tel Aviv as quickly as they can get it there.
    Sincere thanks for your long years of service.

    Let's keep in mind that even the US' military restraint (I know many would disagree with the term, but I know enough about our capability to know it really is restraint), is commonly viewed as a constant string hostile warmongering. So even when we hold back we're viewed as the bad guy. What you've suggested is even stronger military action. This is effective from a military standpoint (never give 'em an inch), but counter-productive diplomatically and economically. All aspects must be considered. "Taking out Iran" will not serve us in the long run. I'd rather just take out their nuclear facilities (the immediate threat) and let the people of Iran take out the leadership when they're ready to. And all indications are they are very ready to.
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