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Thread: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    In any case, gay marriage should have zero effect on population. Or do you think that gays who can't marry are suddenly going to turn straight and start procreating with the opposite sex?
    This is a textbook softball.

    Marriage recognized by the federal government has a large cost associated.

    So you are correct, gay marriage has no effect on the population. Thanks you just helped my case.

    Because although it does nothing to aid in the interests of increasing the population, programs like SS allowing same sex people to cover their spouses creates a larger burden on these programs.

    So as you just admitted, it doesn’t help with population increases, but it does create a higher cost for various programs.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Gay marriage may improve monogamy, but has zero to do with procreation. The mental gymnastics is you trying to tie one in with the other.

    And I pointed out from the very beginning that no proof that the interests are being met is required.

    As for your views on what marriage promotes, millions disagree
    You cannot argue that banning gay marriage promotes the legitimate state interest of encouraging straight marriage to promote procreation unless you are able to show how the ban rationally relates to that. That argument fails from the if you aren't able to do that. Sorry, but you wouldn't make it past the first minute
    unless and until you are able to do that.
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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    This is a textbook softball.

    Marriage recognized by the federal government has a large cost associated.

    So you are correct, gay marriage has no effect on the population. Thanks you just helped my case.

    Because although it does nothing to aid in the interests of increasing the population, programs like SS allowing same sex people to cover their spouses creates a larger burden on these programs.

    So as you just admitted, it doesn’t help with population increases, but it does create a higher cost for various programs.
    Um, not necessarily. One thing we know for sure is that there is a marriage penalty at tax time, meaning that most of the time, two people who are married will pay more in taxes than the same two people would if they weren't married. In that sense gay marriage would increase revenue. It's conceivable that the SS cost could offset that, but I think that's unlikely. I think that both people work in the vast majority of couples -- gay and straight.

    In any case, your argument is not specific to gays. Would you argue that we should do away with marriage altogether, because it costs the government too much money?

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The downfall of GWB which lead to him being re-elected by an even larger percentage margin of victory and larger popular vote total than he did in 2000?
    His downfall meaning that the GOP is embarrassed by him and he rarely shows his face or endorses people. You really know better than that.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    In any case, your argument is not specific to gays. Would you argue that we should do away with marriage altogether, because it costs the government too much money?
    my role in this thread to date is really that of devils advocate. My actual opinion is that government should not be in the business of granting any perks to anybody, regardless of what group they might currently belong to.

    So that would mean marriage has nothing to do with government.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Race and religion are protected within the constitution. Homosexuality and other sexualities are not. I've heard those strawmen arguments many many times. The reason why I believe states have the right to define marriage is because I believe that it's Constitutionally legal to do so and that defining marriage between a man and a woman (which is the wording most states use, not a "ban" on gay marriage) is not a violation of rights outlined in the Constitution.
    So is sex. And the discrimination here is not based on sexuality, it is based on sex.

    Two gay people can get married right now and have their marriage completely and legally recognized by every state and the federal government as long as they are a man and a woman. Just like two people who were attracted to people of a different race could have gotten married in any and every state back in the 60s as long as they were both of the same race.

    It is the characteristic being discriminated against that determines where the scrutiny is set. In the case of same sex marriage it is sex, not sexuality that is the characteristic in which the parties cannot equally do something the other can do.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Easy to do as the discrimination ban is primarily based on biology.

    Rather than require expensive tests to determine if people are fertile, we just discriminate based on the most obvious method of determining viability, sex.
    Why not require test for fertility if the state interest in promoting families is that high? And why recognize opposite sex marriages that are guaranteed to not make children and the law knows it because the couple could not have married if they could make children? (Referring to the states that do not allow first cousins to legally marry if they can have children, yet all those states have anti-SSM laws and all those marriages are legally recognized by the federal government.)
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    You missed the point where I just said it doesn’t matter how the law comes about. Direct democracy, or representative republic, the people responsible for defending the government needs to agree with the government.

    So yes, dense.
    Moderator's Warning:
    Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage billEnough with the personal attacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Um, not necessarily. One thing we know for sure is that there is a marriage penalty at tax time, meaning that most of the time, two people who are married will pay more in taxes than the same two people would if they weren't married. In that sense gay marriage would increase revenue. It's conceivable that the SS cost could offset that, but I think that's unlikely. I think that both people work in the vast majority of couples -- gay and straight.

    In any case, your argument is not specific to gays. Would you argue that we should do away with marriage altogether, because it costs the government too much money?
    The federal government did a study within the last 10 years that predicted that legalized same sex marriage would likely benefit the national coffers by a small amount of money.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Gay marriage isn’t even part of the equation.

    Again, the interest is to encourage procreation, while not encouraging promiscuity. There is no compelling interest to encourage ssm because it has nothing to do with procreation, so the stability of the relationship is not considered a state interest.
    Procreation is irrelevant to state interest. Child rearing is the relevant issue.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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