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Thread: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Of course, considering marriage is a civil contract given out by the state. The state issues the marriage license, marriage is a social contract, and therefore the state's populace can vote on how to define marriage and that civil contract.
    However they can only do so within the scope of the states power...IE, as long as it doesn't violate federal/constitutional law. If the state wants to vote, to save money in terms of workers, that marriage licenses will only be available on Fridays and Saturdays that'd be one thing and likely okay (no quoting me on that, just a shot from the hip for a nexample). On the flip side however, they could not vote to allow only people of the same race to be married due to the Supremacy clause causing the 14th amendment to apply to the states and thus disallowing them to discriminate via race.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I oppose any bill recognizing gay marriage..

    or any marriage...


    I think "marriage" should be completely removed from government. Instead have a contractual agreement that is legal between any consenting adults, that can be 3 men and 1 woman, 6 women and 1 man, 2 men, 2 women, any combination or number and can be added upon at anytime as long as all those involved agree to the terms.

    Who is the government to tell us who we can or cannot have a relationship with? We should be allowed to freely chose with no penalties.
    Six women and one man????? He'd need an anti-nagging prenup.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However they can only do so within the scope of the states power...IE, as long as it doesn't violate federal/constitutional law. If the state wants to vote, to save money in terms of workers, that marriage licenses will only be available on Fridays and Saturdays that'd be one thing and likely okay (no quoting me on that, just a shot from the hip for a nexample). On the flip side however, they could not vote to allow only people of the same race to be married due to the Supremacy clause causing the 14th amendment to apply to the states and thus disallowing them to discriminate via race.
    Agreed. However, many states have defined marriage within their state constitutions as a union only between one man and one woman with no overturning of those state laws. I don't believe that the Constitution calls for protection due to sexuality and I don't think it's legally discriminating against gender to not allow a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman. I would have been if the Equal Rights Amendment was ratified, but it wasn't mainly due to concerns regarding times when gender discrimination is necessary.
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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    While I disagree with you in regards to the gender discrimination...at this point in time the law is on your side (as there's been no ruling at the SCOTUS level suggesting it is gender discriminatoin). As such while my opinion may be that its unconstitutional, and as such I wouldn't support something on a personal level, I don't have an issue with a state population in general voting on something like this at the time being because the constitutional nature of it is still in question with the tie going to the runner (states) at this point.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Of course, considering marriage is a civil contract given out by the state. The state issues the marriage license, marriage is a social contract, and therefore the state's populace can vote on how to define marriage and that civil contract.
    So then if a State decides that it's ok to ban interracial marriage, you support the state's right to do that?

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So then if a State decides that it's ok to ban interracial marriage, you support the state's right to do that?
    Let me help you answer that question by reposting important pieces of the past couple of posts before your.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Of course, considering marriage is a civil contract given out by the state. The state issues the marriage license, marriage is a social contract, and therefore the state's populace can vote on how to define marriage and that civil contract.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However they can only do so within the scope of the states power...IE, as long as it doesn't violate federal/constitutional law. If the state wants to vote, to save money in terms of workers, that marriage licenses will only be available on Fridays and Saturdays that'd be one thing and likely okay (no quoting me on that, just a shot from the hip for a nexample). On the flip side however, they could not vote to allow only people of the same race to be married due to the Supremacy clause causing the 14th amendment to apply to the states and thus disallowing them to discriminate via race.
    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Agreed. However, many states have defined marriage within their state constitutions as a union only between one man and one woman with no overturning of those state laws. I don't believe that the Constitution calls for protection due to sexuality and I don't think it's legally discriminating against gender to not allow a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman. I would have been if the Equal Rights Amendment was ratified, but it wasn't mainly due to concerns regarding times when gender discrimination is necessary.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Christie said he vetoed the bill because it wasn't a state referendum where the voters could vote on it (like in almost every other state). I agree with the veto in this case.
    When do we get to start voting on all kinds of marriage?

    Would you be ok with inter-racial marriage being put to a vote?

    Would you be ok if voters passed a law that said only whites can get married

    Would you be ok if voter agreed that only Christians should be able to get married.

    Why not let voters decide all these?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    When do we get to start voting on all kinds of marriage?

    Would you be ok with inter-racial marriage being put to a vote?

    Would you be ok if voters passed a law that said only whites can get married

    Would you be ok if voter agreed that only Christians should be able to get married.

    Why not let voters decide all these?
    Race and religion are protected within the constitution. Homosexuality and other sexualities are not. I've heard those strawmen arguments many many times. The reason why I believe states have the right to define marriage is because I believe that it's Constitutionally legal to do so and that defining marriage between a man and a woman (which is the wording most states use, not a "ban" on gay marriage) is not a violation of rights outlined in the Constitution.
    Last edited by digsbe; 02-24-12 at 03:06 PM.
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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Would you be ok with inter-racial marriage being put to a vote?
    Let me help him answer that for you as well using the past few posts, again

    Would you be ok if voters passed a law that said only whites can get married

    Would you be ok if voter agreed that only Christians should be able to get married.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However they can only do so within the scope of the states power...IE, as long as it doesn't violate federal/constitutional law.

    ...

    On the flip side however, they could not vote to allow only people of the same race to be married due to the Supremacy clause causing the 14th amendment to apply to the states and thus disallowing them to discriminate via race.
    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Agreed.
    The two things you listed....race and religion...are clear cut undisputed examples of highest teir categories of protection and are examples where its clearly and indisputable, if not already dealt with in the SCOTUS, that unconstitutional discrimination is occuring.

    Those two things can not be said in regards to same sex marriage.

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    Re: Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Let me help him answer that for you as well using the past few posts, again

    Would you be ok if voters passed a law that said only whites can get married

    Would you be ok if voter agreed that only Christians should be able to get married.






    The two things you listed....race and religion...are clear cut undisputed examples of highest teir categories of protection and are examples where its clearly and indisputable, if not already dealt with in the SCOTUS, that unconstitutional discrimination is occuring.

    Those two things can not be said in regards to same sex marriage.[/QUOTE]

    Fine....

    What if the voters passed a law that said you can't get married if you weigh over 250 lbs.

    or

    You can't get married after the age of 25?

    Should voters be allowed to pass those laws?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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