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Thread: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As long as my pay check is mandatroy, he already has. Church money has been used on porn.
    How you spend your paycheck and what the business (through insurance) is required to provide to you are entirely different. I know... Flawed logic, right?

    BTW, what happened with the list showing what the church and insurance is covering to prevent the normal phyical functioning of the human body.
    Last edited by buck; 02-25-12 at 10:58 PM.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yep. That fixes all problems. Means an employer can do anything, and the worker very little. Like I said, you're loyalites are clear.
    What is that supposed to mean?

    Look, people largely like working for places, but that doesn't mean the employer can't be wrong about something.
    That might be a debatable point when talking about some employer like many out there in many fields. But we are talking about the Catholic Church here, not some wharehousing operation. I would certainly think one would know what they were getting into.

    Or that they can't stand up and speak back to the company.
    So, you're saying that the church should only hire Catholics to work for them?

    Leaving jobs are easier for some and at some times than others. However, that too doesn't mean anything should go for the employer.
    I have a news flash for you Joe, just because you agree to work for someone, and they agree to hire you does not mean that you 'own' that job.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What is that supposed to mean?
    I didn't think it was that difficult. In a time when jobs are harder to fine, saying just quit isn't really the ideal option. There has to be balance between the worker and the employer.


    That might be a debatable point when talking about some employer like many out there in many fields. But we are talking about the Catholic Church here, not some wharehousing operation. I would certainly think one would know what they were getting into.
    The Church has ventured into other fields. This means we are not talking about the church or clergy. We're talking about schools and other such business. As such, they are no different than those institutions. See the last SC ruling on the matter. Has to be Church or clergy, and not other type employees.


    So, you're saying that the church should only hire Catholics to work for them?
    No. I'm saying that what any employee does with their compensation is up tot hat employee and not the employer.

    I have a news flash for you Joe, just because you agree to work for someone, and they agree to hire you does not mean that you 'own' that job.

    j-mac
    Strawman alert.

    never said anything of the kind j. I said that employers have rules and responsibilites as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    How you spend your paycheck and what the business (through insurance) is required to provide to you are entirely different. I know... Flawed logic, right?

    BTW, what happened with the list showing what the church and insurance is covering to prevent the normal phyical functioning of the human body.
    Not sure exactly what you're speaking of, but prevention is covered under most plans. These include normal functions.

    And I repeat, insurance is compensation, no different than your pay check.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Never said they can't use their compensation how they see fit.
    Insurance is their compensation.


    Again faced it in the above.




    There is no connection. What you get paid and what a service covers are not comparable to how a paycheck is used. Maybe if you understood how a service is provided you would see there is no connection.
    I understand both. And when we negotiate, we're told insurance is compensation, like out pay check. They can't have it both ways to suit their wish to control use of the compensation.

    So, I don't think you're effectively addressed the issue.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure exactly what you're speaking of, but prevention is covered under most plans. These include normal functions.
    So, what are these normal human states that are being prevented and paid for by insurance? Other then female contraception, of course.

    And I repeat, insurance is compensation, no different than your pay check.
    No one has claimed that insurance isn't compensation. You seem to be very confused on the whole topic.

    In one case the religious org is being forced to directly pay for something that is against their beliefs.
    Last edited by buck; 02-27-12 at 12:26 PM.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    So, what are these normal human functions that are being prevented and paid for by insurance? Other then female contraception, of course.
    Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov


    No one has claimed that insurance isn't compensation. You seem to be very confused on the whole topic.

    In one case the religious org is being forced to directly pay for something that is against their beliefs.
    No. They only pay their portion of the insurance. There is nothing that says anyone will use the service. Nothing. So, they are nto going to the doctor, asking for contraceptions, and paying for them. They merely provide insurance. Only the employee determines what insurance compensations are spent on.

    Again, this not the Church, not the clergy, but a business that the Church has decided to branch out into. You will find the courts will see this difference.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    I assume you haven't looked at the list or I missed exactly what you wanted me to see, but all of the items on that list appear to be to prevent abnormal human states. Prevention of HPB, cancers, STI's, Obesity etc. Unless you are claiming that those are normal human states - I have news for you, they aren't.

    No. They only pay their portion of the insurance. There is nothing that says anyone will use the service. Nothing. So, they are nto going to the doctor, asking for contraceptions, and paying for them. They merely provide insurance. Only the employee determines what insurance compensations are spent on.
    They are being required to pay for the service. Wether someone uses it or not is irrelevant. The fact that there is a chance that someone will use that coverage means that the coverage has to be available and someone has to pay for that coverage - the employer (religious org in this case).

    Again, this not the Church, not the clergy, but a business that the Church has decided to branch out into. You will find the courts will see this difference.
    Courts have found for religious organzations many times, in regards to employment issues. Easiest if you just ignore that, though.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I assume you haven't looked at the list or I missed exactly what you wanted me to see, but all of the items on that list appear to be to prevent abnormal human states. Prevention of HPB, cancers, STI's, Obesity etc. Unless you are claiming that those are normal human states - I have news for you, they aren't.
    No. Prevention isn't treatment of. Nor is depression abnormal, for example.

    They are being required to pay for the service. Wether someone uses it or not is irrelevant. The fact that there is a chance that someone will use that coverage means that the coverage has to be available and someone has to pay for that coverage - the employer (religious org in this case).
    Actually it is quite relevant. It is the point. A service not used is not a service paid for. There is a chance the money they give as compensation will be spend on drugs, sex, even abortion. how the compensation is used is completely in the domain of the employee.



    Courts have found for religious organzations many times, in regards to employment issues. Easiest if you just ignore that, though.
    Can't speak to many times, as each would have to be looked at individually. But the last ruling made a distinction between the church and clergy and other employees. If this train of thought is the precedent, the church will lose.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Angry lawmakers challenge lineup at hearing: 'Where are the women?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Prevention isn't treatment of. Nor is depression abnormal, for example.
    You have got to be kidding... Depression is absolutely an abnormal human condition due to seretonin not making it across the synapse - for example. This mental abnormality can be cured through medication. You really are grasping, arent you?

    Actually it is quite relevant. It is the point. A service not used is not a service paid for. There is a chance the money they give as compensation will be spend on drugs, sex, even abortion. how the compensation is used is completely in the domain of the employee.
    Not really, but you're kind of like a brick wall. If you think giving someone a salary to spend on porn and forcing a religious organization to directly pay for porn for an employee is the same thing - more power to you.
    Last edited by buck; 02-27-12 at 01:26 PM.

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