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Thread: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

  1. #71
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    doubtful. as the SCOTUS has already noted, you don't rate a single dime of Social Security, and it can be taken from you at any time.



    a good set of intentions, right there. unfortunately, reality seems to indicate that we will not be able to succeed at them as much as we'd hoped. so I guess I'll answer your question with a question:

    Either one believes we should put our "entitlement" programs on a path towards long-term stability and dramatically reduce outlays in order to avoid a fiscal collapse, or one believes in fully funding these programs until they destroy the economy. In the 2020's. At which point we become Greece, only much worse because no one can bail us out, and so we are throwing our elderly off the programs all of a sudden and rapidly, to include those who probably lack the means to support themselves without. Which are you?
    If Social Security is an entitlement program then FICA must be another kind of income tax. Of course, unlike Dragnet, the names have been changed to protect the guilty. Be sure to add 7.65% to all those undervalued income tax percentages of the middle class the next time you compare them to the income tax percentages of upper-class and rich. In that light I'm pretty sure a very large chuck of the middle class has been outstripping Romney & Co since ~2003.


    Ed:
    In fact, you've have to go extremely far down in the tax tables to get the rate down to 14% once you've added 7.65% to it.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-19-12 at 11:06 AM.
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    I wonder what the bank will say when I take my 1st ss payment to them and it is nothing but an IOU from the gov. Will they give me cash for it?

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I wonder what the bank will say when I take my 1st ss payment to them and it is nothing but an IOU from the gov. Will they give me cash for it?
    Essentially, every Treasury Bond is a government IOU. As long as all those financial wizards who believe US Treasuries are one of the safest investments on the planet get turned down as well then I'm good with that.

    And you thought the last financial crisis was a doozy! Wait until the World finds out US Treasuries are junk ...
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I am sorry that you have paid for 5 decdes. You will probably see SS. For me, the chances are I won't, as mentioned in the article.

    Your first question was, "Either one believes in the full faith and credit of the United States or one does not. Which are you?" Not do I believe in enforcing the constitution. You are twisting my words. I don't believe that our credit will be maintained if we continue to dilute our finances. We have been downgraded in our debt. We have come very close in the last 2 years to not meeting our obligations. We are very thin. I don't believe we can maintain our current position and maintain our credit. Good for you that you are retired or retiring soon, but this will not be here for me.

    Your second question is, "Either one believes in honoring the promises made to the citizens of the nation who fulfill their end of the bargain or one does not. Which are you?" We aren't. I am not going to see the same social security benefits as my parents or you. So the promise is not honored. There won't be money there. As I mentioned, you paid in, and that is great. I am paying as well, and the government will not keep their promise. I know they are in over their heads with this program. I have said for a long time, take what we have left, figure out how many generations it can support. Make the cut off there. For the rest of us, Social Security is a just another tax.

    Question 3, "Either one believes that money and revenues should first go to existing and long standing obligations before new ones are taken on or one does not. Which are you?" They should...but do they? Our government is still expanding and they know that this program doesn't have the financial support to maintain.

    The SS program needs a major overhaul, people are going to have to sacrafice. C'est la gare.
    I agree with Haymarket. You are too pessimistic. The program will be there for you -- for everyone. And it may even be better for later generations than it is for Boomers. Most certainly it will be restructured from its current unsustainable model, but it's still something that people can count on. It's not going anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thanks for this. I admit I find it of absolutely no comfort...just more smoke and mirrors.

    For one thing, both Democrats and Republicans agree that the proposed cut to the payroll tax (which funds Social Security) must be paid for, so its effect on the budget would be neutral. [Here's the smoke!!] The Democrats want to pay for it with a tax surcharge on millionaires; Republicans want to freeze the pay of federal workers and reduce the federal workforce by 10 percent. [Here's the smoke.]

    But even if the tax cut were not paid for — and the one currently in effect was not — it would still not affect Social Security. Federal law requires the treasury to reimburse any shortfall in the account used to pay retirement benefits. [The mirrors are here.] So while an unpaid-for payroll tax cut would raise the general deficit and lead to more borrowing, just like any other tax cut, it would not change Social Security benefits or damage the program’s future.
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    I think the only way ss will go away is if WE let it go away.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    J-mac

    The Constitution clearly authorizes the government to undertake programs like Social Security. I gave you the language, you read the language, you quoted the language but you stand there pretending that a blueberry is not blue even though your eyes tell you it is. So it seems rather pointless for me to tell you what the Constitution means and you to deny it and tell me what you think it means. We get nowhere that way. It just becomes your opinion versus my opinion.

    OMG! I didn't say that SS was authorized by the Constitution of the United States you did. Then when I ask you to show me where, you give some, simple minded snarky answer about how it is right there in the pre amble of the document, to which I posted it and asked you to show me where. Now you say that you will not show where you take that from, and go further and dishonestly say that I saw it and are intentionally playing some sort of game...Where in the real world does that sort of convoluted logic ever pass as anything other than obfuscation, and flat out distortion on your part?


    What we need is some independent body who is schooled on the Constitution and can make that judgment independent of what you and I believe.

    When you say "independent body" why do I get the feeling that you deep down mean a panel that can rest on their acdemic pedegree to tell me that the sky is orange. Look, an acdemic pedegree doesn't outweigh the strength of my argument.

    That would be the United States Supreme Court. This will help educate you

    And this is the problem that we run into. The USSC should not be setting precident that in effect creates law, or as in the case of abortion some percieved 'right' unanumerated by the population, and circumvent the 10th amendment. That you ascribe to a body of unelected lifetime appointees that once seated are accountable to virtually NO ONE! And basically dumping the Constitution in favor of implementing an agenda against the will of the people.


    So lets forget about your opinion as well as my opinion. We have the opinion of the actual independent body whose opinion has the weight of law behind it.
    Is that your feeling of say "Citizens United" as well?


    If you want to argue, they are located in Washington DC. There is a very good restaurant a few blocks from their building and I would be happy to recommend it to you while to go and cross verbal swords with the nine justices.
    I know DC pretty well, and doubt whether you have the juice to arrange anything of the sort. This is just example of you trying Allenski tactic to shift the debate, and deflect.

    I do not know you and will not pass judgment upon your own evaluation of your own character.
    As is proper.

    For now, I take you at your word.
    For now? Why, do you plan of visiting, and meeting me? I look forward to it.

    Regarding the government and Social Security, I know this: not one person in the last 75 years has been denied Social Security benefits in full when they completed their obligations in the program.
    And it now has trillions of dollars in unfunded liability. But you would ignore that...


    Not one person has come up short.
    Well, that is a matter of opinion. See since SS was set up as a ponzi scheme where the time period was never meant originally to pay back everything that individual contributed during their lifetime never took into account that life expectancy has increased dramatically and now not only pays out everything, but in fact over the course of collection, more than the individual paid in.

    Do you favor raising the age of collection to that which would be in line with today's life expectancy?

    The US Government has honored and paid each and every one of their obligations. They have never defaulted on their Social Security obligations.
    And defaulting is NOT what we are talking about here. Why are you deflecting?

    j-mac
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Essentially, every Treasury Bond is a government IOU. As long as all those financial wizards who believe US Treasuries are one of the safest investments on the planet get turned down as well then I'm good with that.

    And you thought the last financial crisis was a doozy! Wait until the World finds out US Treasuries are junk ...
    Standard & Poors made a similar mistake in downgrading the U.S. credit rating. Since its initial downgrade, the yield curve has been flirting with all-time lows. If you are wondering what junk trades at, see Merrill Lynch High Yield CCC.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    J-Mac, SS was not set up as a Ponzi scheme. In its original design, it works just fine. The billions of dollars collected over the years, thru the principle of compound interest, would be sufficient to fund it forever. Basically the payments would all be Capital Gains.

    However, over the years, the fund has been raided by every politician imaginable. Clinton and Newt were the worst with their paper "surplus". If the benefits had only been taken frm dividends and other programs kept their hands out of the cookie jar, we would not be facing the collapse that is staring us in the face.

    The sad thing is that off this had been done in the private sector, the responsible parties that stole money from the retirement fund would all be in jail....
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    J-Mac, SS was not set up as a Ponzi scheme. In its original design, it works just fine. The billions of dollars collected over the years, thru the principle of compound interest, would be sufficient to fund it forever. Basically the payments would all be Capital Gains.
    Question: What investment vehicle carries the higher rate of return? A. depository account B. U.S. Treasury certificates
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Question: What investment vehicle carries the higher rate of return? A. depository account B. U.S. Treasury certificates
    I do not know. Please enlighten me.

    However, how does this matter? No matter what one would have made the most money over the life of the investment has no bearing on the fact that the money that was made was placed in the general fund and spent on many other things.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

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