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Thread: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

  1. #171
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Which is why i am against raising the age without means testing (which opens up another fairness debate).
    I would agree. We already raised the age of full retirement in 1983, and there are other means of tinkering with revenues that are a little less like a meat-axe.

  2. #172
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    The last thing the founders wanted was for their descendants to be imprisoned in the chains of their ancestors. Not believing themselves to be inspired visionaries capable of divining the future, yet hoping to craft a document that would prove to be more durable and of greater long-term use than the crummy decade it took the Articles to fall apart, they wrote in many ways. Where they intended to be specific, their words were specififc. Where they intended to be open, general, and flexible, their words were open, general, and flexible. Attempting to impose latter-day strictures and literal lockdowns of meaning as of the moment the ink dried is a complete abrogation of and disservice to the work done in 1787 and beyond.

    No branch was meanwhile meant to dominate another, but each was to serve as a check on the others. The staggered terms at which actors face the public tells us about their assigned roles. The House gets two-years. It is to be the raucous hotbed and cauldron of popular causes. The President gets four years. He must lead but must then face all the people, not just his friends and neighbors. The Senate is the reserved and more deliberative body. They get six years. And the federal judiciary is removed entirely from the public's reach, meaning that concern for the republic and its Constitution will be its quiet and exclusive agenda. It's a clunky and crotchety system, but mainly it gets things right, albeit often only on the second or third try.

    However, there is a process to change that document, and it isn't through the courts. If you want to change it, amend it.


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  3. #173
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "The Piggies"? What kind of F'd up crap is that to start out a reply to someone? I asked a legitimate question of how much of MY OWN hard earned money I should be allowed to keep, and you call me a pig?
    Yes, and I explained why. You are trying to claim as your own "hard-earned money" amounts that have nothing to do with how hard you work or what you produce.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The employer is bound to pay a portion based on my employment with that company, and is not my employment to provide a service?
    What you do or do not do is irrelevant. A payment obligation results to your employer from the mere fact of your employment.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are they not made in my name?
    No, the taxes just go swimming off into the big pot. They do not go into some account with your name on it. What goes into your account is that you were employed in a covered position at a particular point in time and how much your wages were at that time. Those are what will be used to calcualte your eventual benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think if private citizens do this to a business, it is called organized crime....
    Perhaps so, as private citizens are not taxing authorities. Remember that the next time you are tempted to claim that governments should be run just like households.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Or, the business I work for would have the ability sans those taxes to actually raise my pay, just like some do when employees opt not to take the company offered health plans....Mine does that.
    You prove by showing up every morning that you are willing to work in exchange for your net pay. Once the company no longer has any obligation to send a penny off to SSA, what incentive does it have to give you anything? Especially when competitors start passing those savings on by slashing prices in an attempt to hijack market share.

  4. #174
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Social Security was a pay-as-you-go system. No significant interest or capital gains. Current payroll taxes paid for current beneficiary payments. The two were reset periodically to assure that they would remain in general balance. Once the then far-off blip of the baby boomers was recognized however, that system wouldn't work anymore. That's when the revisions of 1983 created an exceess on the revenue side that would be saved up to use as a cushion when those boomer retirements finally hit. Once that particular crisis is past, the Trust Funds will go right back to zero, which is where they started.


    All of this is wrong. As any trustee would, the SSTF trustees have invested the cash they don't need yet for decades. And on the other side of the table of course, ALL borrowers use the proceeds of bond sales for their own purposes. Meanwhile, the FY1999 and FY2000 budgets were in surplus even if the sizable SS surpluses were not counted.

    And there is of course no collapse of SS at all that is staring us in the face. Right-wing whackos have preached this as a way of discrediting a system that they have always hated simply because Democrats have been getting credit for it at the polls for decades, just as they will now get credit for HCR.


    The exact same thing happens every day in the private sector. Nobody goes to jail. Learn to be the master of your own imagination.
    It is embarrassing when you find out that something that you have been told and believed and used as a basis of argument is totally false.

    After you smacked me in the face with this, I started digging to get evidence to refute your allegations. Sadly, everything that I found substantiated your position.

    I stand corrected. It is always a good day when you learn something, even if you make an ass of yourself along the way.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    In reality, the shortfall has been more than made up by current interest on the bonds held by the trust fund, not by "dipping into" the bonds themselves. For 2010 and 2011, the amount held in the trust fund has increased.
    Yes, it has, and depending on what sources are used, the budgetary flows that cause that increase may or may not include amounts charged to the General Fund in making up for amounts otherwise lost to the system through the 2% payroll tax holiday. This only makes it easier for the right-wing to do more of its dishonest reporting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    And of course, as everyone should know, when and if the trust fund does run dry, current payroll collections at the time will be able to fund roughly 75% of the benefits without it, for the next 50-odd years. Hardly a bankruptcy scenario.
    Yes, under the Trustees' assumptions, that 75% level will exist pretty much in perpetuity. And what's also rarely reported is that due to the way benefits are calculated, that 75% of scheduled benefits then would ultimately be worth more than what 100% of scheduled benefits is worth today. Not exactly what I would call a collapse.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Which is why Wall Street is salivating to get their hands on it, and Republicans are toadying to privatize it.
    Yes, that was the whole thrust of Bush's 2005 privatize-SS campaign. Just another hunk of free money to throw up Wall Street's way. No different from tort reform, bankruptcy reform, or all the attempts to chop up the GSE's and privatize that mission also. Fortunately, the SS proposals at least were effectively countered with some truth and they withered on the vine. Had they been in effect by 2008, we could have expected SS losses of well over a trillion dollars. Wouldn't that have been a help!

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I asked if a nations wealth, and status in the world is a static thing?
    Certainly not, or we'd still be a lightly considered and underdeveloped backwater. But we don't have some sort of NFL-style parity system going on here either. Unless you can get past all the energy, creativity, and vitality that underlies that 23% of world product, you won't be turning us into Zimbabwe any time soon enough for anyone at all to be concerned over it.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    As to your second point - it was you who seemed to take issue with Social Security and changes in it over the years. I would just as soon accept the changes as reality. Of course, SS has changed. Any successful program grows and changes as the society around it changes. That is a good thing.
    The original notion was that payroll taxes would just be the way to get the ball rolling and that funding could shift to being from general revenues after 20 years or so. But down the road, Congress wisely thought it would be better to keep the program from being so closely and regularly tainted by the whims of the political process, so they left tha payroll tax system in place.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thanks. We had a terrific time. Last year we took my grandson - who was then nine - as we gave him the choice of Disney World or Washington DC. The little chip off the old block picked DC. He wanted to see the President. We did get to see his helicopter take off from the White House lawn (all 3 of them). it was a wonderful experience. His biggest kick was standing where Martin Luther King delivered his speech at the Washington Monument. He insisted his picture be taken there.
    That was probably the Lincoln Memorial then. But yes, DC is a wonderful town to try to take in. There are so many things that you've read and heard about, and suddenly there they all are, right in front of you. I've been here since 1969, and I know I still get goose bumps when I'm walking over to OMB and gaze up and see all the snipers on the rooftops. Ack!

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What other DC restaurants would you recommend? We want to go back in the fall.
    Geez, DC isn't NYC, but there are still tons and tons of places, and it really depends on what you like and where you are. We and a couple of friends have a common background of residency in Euro-cities with Germanic-sounding names that start with W, so we often dine at Cafe Berlin near 4th & Mass NE. It's actually run by Austrians, but they do a very nice job. The potato pancakes are nearly perfect. Joe Torre was in town this past week to do a seminar-style talk at Lisner Auditorium, so after that we went up to a new place called District Commons on Washington Circle (23rd & Penn NW). Sort of an upscale techno-bistro kind of place, but way too loud until people started leaving. After that, you could have a conversation, but the food was rated excellent by all four of us. So, it just depends on where you are and what you're looking for. Probably the two iconic spots would be the Old Ebbitt Grill (across 15th from Treasury) and Ben's Chili Bowl (12th & U NW). I like them both fine for what they are, but mostly their rep is simply from having been around for a long time.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    However, there is a process to change that document, and it isn't through the courts. If you want to change it, amend it.
    Well, that's one way. But unless you wanted to have 10,000 amendments by now, simple judicial review is probably preferable.

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