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Thread: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is status, and wealth static?
    Oh, so you meant that Treasury securities would be junk in like 5,000 years?

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Oh, so you meant that Treasury securities would be junk in like 5,000 years?

    No, I asked if a nations wealth, and status in the world is a static thing?


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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I asked if a nations wealth, and status in the world is a static thing?


    j-mac
    Why even ask such a question?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Why even ask such a question?

    I'll tell you as soon as you answer it.


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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I'll tell you as soon as you answer it.
    j-mac
    I am not here to play games of semantics. Make your point or do not make your point; it is entirely up to you.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't think you have the founders intent correct. Although you are right that they didn't like a system of direct, 100% democracy, They certainly didn't want a judicary that reigned supreme over the congress either. You are advocating the making up rights out of whole cloth that rely on interpetitation of some sort of maliable whim of the day, rather than following the constitution as written. IOW, according to you, why have the Constitution, or congress at all? If all we need are judges that hold power to change law, and or rights on their whim, or as we have seen political reasoning, then why not just abolish our nation as it exists now, for your paradigm?
    The last thing the founders wanted was for their descendants to be imprisoned in the chains of their ancestors. Not believing themselves to be inspired visionaries capable of divining the future, yet hoping to craft a document that would prove to be more durable and of greater long-term use than the crummy decade it took the Articles to fall apart, they wrote in many ways. Where they intended to be specific, their words were specififc. Where they intended to be open, general, and flexible, their words were open, general, and flexible. Attempting to impose latter-day strictures and literal lockdowns of meaning as of the moment the ink dried is a complete abrogation of and disservice to the work done in 1787 and beyond.

    No branch was meanwhile meant to dominate another, but each was to serve as a check on the others. The staggered terms at which actors face the public tells us about their assigned roles. The House gets two-years. It is to be the raucous hotbed and cauldron of popular causes. The President gets four years. He must lead but must then face all the people, not just his friends and neighbors. The Senate is the reserved and more deliberative body. They get six years. And the federal judiciary is removed entirely from the public's reach, meaning that concern for the republic and its Constitution will be its quiet and exclusive agenda. It's a clunky and crotchety system, but mainly it gets things right, albeit often only on the second or third try.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    The General Fund is simply the Treasury's cash management account. Any cash received by the federal government that is not pre-marked to a specific purpose is collected to the General Fund. All proceeds from the sale of US debt securities go there. They cannot be withdrawn and expended until Congress passes authorizing and appropriating legislation to fund the expediture. At that point, Treasury transfers funds to agency operating accounts, and they proceed to spend for authorized purposes. Payroll taxes on the other hand are initially paid to the IRS which credits accounts owned by the Social Security Administration. They are then used either to make SS benefit payments or to buy more Treasury securities. Buying more Treasury securities is what puts cash in the General Fund, just as buying a US Savings Bond for your niece does.


    About the budget: There are two "off-budget" agencies. Social Security and the US Postal Service. Neither one receives an annual appropriation from Congress to operate. SS relies on payroll taxes, and USPS relies on postage and other fees. Then again, since 1983, SS has been taking in a lot of money. Does it make sense to pretend that it doesn't exist? No. So the budget is always presented on a unified basis (everybody), but then split out into the "off-budget" piece (SS and USPS) and the "on-budget" piece (everybody else). In FY2011, there was a $67.2 billion off-budget surplus, and a $1,366.8 on-budget deficit, so there was a unified deficit of $1,299.6.

    Meanwhile, the budget treatment has no effect on the public debt at all. The nearly $2.7 trilllion SS surplus is already a part of the public debt simply because it is invested in Treasury securities. That's all the public debt is -- a measure of Treasury (and some other agency) securities outstanding.
    Thanks for that! It's a much better explanation than I've been able to find elsewhere.

    I never looked at Treasuries as being public debt, though, of course, they most surely are.
    (I did know there were other off-book accounts, not just SS, but couldn't remember them.)
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Does anyone object to a portion of S.S. to be diversified into private equity and REIT markets? I have been on the fence with this idea for quite some time. Reason be, the national security risks from investing S.S. funds into equity markets in a time when international capital mobility is at its highest outweigh any direct benefits. Also, such an action would give the federal government way to much power to manipulate. Then there is the entire "voting rights" issue for various company boards.
    The Clinton administration officially looked at diversifying SS investments and came away with a thumbs down for the idea. There have also of course been private analyses done. Two things to consider: First, the market doesn't price risk consistently with the objectives of Social Security, and second, after Treasury securities, there isn't a market that is large enough to have many trillions of dollars come in and then go out again according to an easily predictable schedule.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are you saying that SS has not changed since 1935?



    What? we should re debate the New Deal here? Today? Why don't we just stick to what is going on with SS today.


    j-mac
    As to your second point - it was you who seemed to take issue with Social Security and changes in it over the years. I would just as soon accept the changes as reality.

    Of course, SS has changed. Any successful program grows and changes as the society around it changes. That is a good thing.
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Yes, there are several Jaleos and other restaurants in the group also. Some people think you can't do quality food under more than one roof. Having had an involvement in the industry since the 1960's, I think that's bunk. Anyway, the Archives are at 7th & Constitution, so a quick three blocks from Jaleo. And if it were a nice day, a stroll from the Court past the Capitol and down Constitution or across The Mall might have seemed like a good idea. I'd have taken a cab though.
    Thanks. We had a terrific time. Last year we took my grandson - who was then nine - as we gave him the choice of Disney World or Washington DC. The little chip off the old block picked DC. He wanted to see the President. We did get to see his helicopter take off from the White House lawn (all 3 of them). it was a wonderful experience. His biggest kick was standing where Martin Luther King delivered his speech at the Washington Monument. He insisted his picture be taken there.

    What other DC restaurants would you recommend? We want to go back in the fall.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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