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Thread: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

  1. #151
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    As I understand it it's all a matter of bean counting, whether to include SS as part of the (general fund) Fed budget or not.
    The General Fund is simply the Treasury's cash management account. Any cash received by the federal government that is not pre-marked to a specific purpose is collected to the General Fund. All proceeds from the sale of US debt securities go there. They cannot be withdrawn and expended until Congress passes authorizing and appropriating legislation to fund the expediture. At that point, Treasury transfers funds to agency operating accounts, and they proceed to spend for authorized purposes. Payroll taxes on the other hand are initially paid to the IRS which credits accounts owned by the Social Security Administration. They are then used either to make SS benefit payments or to buy more Treasury securities. Buying more Treasury securities is what puts cash in the General Fund, just as buying a US Savings Bond for your niece does.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    At some point Nixon decided to include SS as part of the budget, which was a departure from previous admins. Today we could just as easily reverse that process but understand that it would jump the national debt by ~$2.6 trillion (the current SS Trust Fund balance) and increase the deficit ~$93 billion (SS net revenue from 2010).
    About the budget: There are two "off-budget" agencies. Social Security and the US Postal Service. Neither one receives an annual appropriation from Congress to operate. SS relies on payroll taxes, and USPS relies on postage and other fees. Then again, since 1983, SS has been taking in a lot of money. Does it make sense to pretend that it doesn't exist? No. So the budget is always presented on a unified basis (everybody), but then split out into the "off-budget" piece (SS and USPS) and the "on-budget" piece (everybody else). In FY2011, there was a $67.2 billion off-budget surplus, and a $1,366.8 on-budget deficit, so there was a unified deficit of $1,299.6.

    Meanwhile, the budget treatment has no effect on the public debt at all. The nearly $2.7 trilllion SS surplus is already a part of the public debt simply because it is invested in Treasury securities. That's all the public debt is -- a measure of Treasury (and some other agency) securities outstanding.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 02-19-12 at 06:37 PM.

  2. #152
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Reality check, SS is a Ponzi Scheme, it's unsustainable, and it's going to implode. Medicare, Medicaide and now Obamacare will drive deficits to levels that make 17 Trillion seem like a pittance.
    Reality Check: None of these claims can be supported by any actual fact.

  3. #153
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is this pure ad hom personal attack supposed to make us think that you are intellectually superior or something? Because it just makes you look arrogant and pathetic.
    Do you understand the difference between a person and a paragraph? The paragraph is stupefyingly ignorant. There -- I said it again for you. As to intellectual superiority, that may depend on whether you equate that with knowledge and understanding.

  4. #154
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    [...] The only people who believe that US currency and debt are junk are those whose heads have been filled with junk while they weren't watching.
    Or whose heads have been filled by junk by what they were watching (OP's source as a case in point).

  5. #155
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow, you're so independent your far left.....Shocker!
    Actual facts are non-partisan.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    So after reading exactly what a Ponzi scheme is and why it eventually collapses tell me why ss isn't one and won't collapse.
    Are you under the impression that SS is an investment scheme? Go look up the business model of all insurance companies: Pay current claims out of current premiums. Salt some away as reserves against future needs. Keep the rest as profit. Use actuarial methodologies to maintain the required sustainable relationship between claims and premiums. That's exactly what SS does. Except for the profit part.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Actual facts are non-partisan.
    When you provide some we can judge for ourselves...Thanks.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain, in post #62, replying to Catawba View Post
    That isn't what the original article is indicating. Its stating that in 2022, for the first time, they will actually have to redeem more trust fund bonds than they purchase, which translates into a reduction of the total trust fund balance( 2.7 trillion and change ). [...]
    No, what the original article indicated, and which is a bald faced lie, is: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022 - Washington Times

    The facts are, that under current projections (those used in the article), Social Security will have to start dipping into the trust fund in 2022 (the article even mentions as much), as you said. However, if that was been what the original article "indicated", we wouldn't be subjected to the moronic title of this thread.

    Under those projections, the trust fund itself will not run dry until 2036. John Boehner has been telling a similar lie as the Washington Times does in its headline above, proving that when the right wing's mouth is moving, they are lying. I guess it is pathological [shrug].

    Another bald faced lie perpetrated by the Washington Times is this gem (same article): "Social Security has taken in less in taxes than it has paid out in benefits since 2010, but the shortfall has been made up as the government has dipped into IOUs left in the trust funds from previous years."

    In reality, the shortfall has been more than made up by current interest on the bonds held by the trust fund, not by "dipping into" the bonds themselves. For 2010 and 2011, the amount held in the trust fund has increased. And of course, as everyone should know, when and if the trust fund does run dry, current payroll collections at the time will be able to fund roughly 75% of the benefits without it, for the next 50-odd years. Hardly a bankruptcy scenario.
    Last edited by Karl; 02-19-12 at 07:06 PM.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Are you under the impression that SS is an investment scheme? Go look up the business model of all insurance companies: Pay current claims out of current premiums. Salt some away as reserves against future needs. Keep the rest as profit. Use actuarial methodologies to maintain the required sustainable relationship between claims and premiums. That's exactly what SS does. Except for the profit part.
    Which is why Wall Street is salivating to get their hands on it, and Republicans are toadying to privatize it.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yup - thats it. have been there twice - great food both times. And I did not realize it was a chain. If I remember correctly, we visited the Capitol, went past the Supreme Court, went to the Archives only to find it closed for renovation -and then we hit the restaurant....... although a cab ride may have been involved at some point.
    Yes, there are several Jaleos and other restaurants in the group also. Some people think you can't do quality food under more than one roof. Having had an involvement in the industry since the 1960's, I think that's bunk. Anyway, the Archives are at 7th & Constitution, so a quick three blocks from Jaleo. And if it were a nice day, a stroll from the Court past the Capitol and down Constitution or across The Mall might have seemed like a good idea. I'd have taken a cab though.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 02-19-12 at 07:12 PM.

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