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Thread: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

  1. #131
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Essentially, every Treasury Bond is a government IOU. As long as all those financial wizards who believe US Treasuries are one of the safest investments on the planet get turned down as well then I'm good with that. And you thought the last financial crisis was a doozy! Wait until the World finds out US Treasuries are junk ...
    A ten-dollar bill is also an IOU, and currency and debt are backed by exactly the same thing. They are each claims on the output of real goods and services produced by the economy that issued them. In the case of the US, that amounts to 23% of everything that is produced anywhere in the world. No other nation is even close. The only people who believe that US currency and debt are junk are those whose heads have been filled with junk while they weren't watching.

  2. #132
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I really don't...I have a 401K, and an IRA backed by gold. But I would like to get back the money I've paid in since I was 15 years old....




    So it is another wealth redistribution scheme based on a lie.



    Yep, progressives all...I think you know my opinion of them.


    j-mac
    You seem to feel personally betrayed about this whole belief thing. Can I ask you just how old were you when you stopped believing in the following

    a- Santa Claus
    b- the Tooth Fairy
    c- the Easter Bunny
    d- that little Irish dude who pitches Lucky charms cereal

    Social Security is a nationwide program designed to provide retirement income and a solid support base for the vast majority of society as they and we age as a society. For anyone to consider it merely as a personal or individual retirement savings account is to intentionally and deliberately commit intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  3. #133
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    A ten-dollar bill is also an IOU, and currency and debt are backed by exactly the same thing. They are each claims on the output of real goods and services produced by the economy that issued them. In the case of the US, that amounts to 23% of everything that is produced anywhere in the world. No other nation is even close. The only people who believe that US currency and debt are junk are those whose heads have been filled with junk while they weren't watching.

    Is status, and wealth static?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And this is the problem that we run into. The USSC should not be setting precident that in effect creates law, or as in the case of abortion some percieved 'right' unanumerated by the population, and circumvent the 10th amendment. That you ascribe to a body of unelected lifetime appointees that once seated are accountable to virtually NO ONE! And basically dumping the Constitution in favor of implementing an agenda against the will of the people.
    Federal judges were accorded life terms specifically to INSULATE them from the whacko will of the people. The founders hated the notion of direct democracy and spent great energies in keeping that wolf from the door. It is meanwhile not now nor has it ever been necessary for a power to be specifically enumerated in the Constitution for it to exist. Powers implied exist quite equally. In fact powers lie at this moment dormant within the Constitution simply because we have not invented yet the circumstances under which they will apply.

  5. #135
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You seem to feel personally betrayed about this whole belief thing. Can I ask you just how old were you when you stopped believing in the following

    a- Santa Claus
    b- the Tooth Fairy
    c- the Easter Bunny
    d- that little Irish dude who pitches Lucky charms cereal

    Social Security is a nationwide program designed to provide retirement income and a solid support base for the vast majority of society as they and we age as a society. For anyone to consider it merely as a personal or individual retirement savings account is to intentionally and deliberately commit intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

    Wow, that is some really well written insult you have there....If I weren't on to you, I'd have to sign off and go have a good cry.....heh, heh...

    See the thing is you are arguing what no one, and not myself has said here...I think that is the definition of a strawman argument is it not?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Standard & Poors made a similar mistake in downgrading the U.S. credit rating.
    The mistake was in not realizing that markets would simply ignore the downgrade, which -- in combination with the disastrous errors of the rating services leading up to the Great Bush Recession -- is causing people to wonder why these people are at all relevant to the workings of any major economy. The best face that can be put on it really is via its value as a hard, cold, slap in the face to Tea Party Republicans and their ideological inflexibiliry concerning the need to increase revenue.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow, that is some really well written insult you have there....If I weren't on to you, I'd have to sign off and go have a good cry.....heh, heh...

    See the thing is you are arguing what no one, and not myself has said here...I think that is the definition of a strawman argument is it not?


    j-mac
    Actually it was intended to make you smile. Like this

    You seem to really be angry or hurt that some reason which you believe was given for Social Security is different than what you believe the program now does. I think its funny that you would put your faith into something like that.

    But I will tell you what I will do - why don't you just present the reasons the sponsors gave for Social Security in their own words and we can them compare it to the program that was instituted and we can see just what is what and if you have a point or not?

    Sound fair?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    J-Mac, SS was not set up as a Ponzi scheme. In its original design, it works just fine. The billions of dollars collected over the years, thru the principle of compound interest, would be sufficient to fund it forever. Basically the payments would all be Capital Gains.
    Social Security was a pay-as-you-go system. No significant interest or capital gains. Current payroll taxes paid for current beneficiary payments. The two were reset periodically to assure that they would remain in general balance. Once the then far-off blip of the baby boomers was recognized however, that system wouldn't work anymore. That's when the revisions of 1983 created an exceess on the revenue side that would be saved up to use as a cushion when those boomer retirements finally hit. Once that particular crisis is past, the Trust Funds will go right back to zero, which is where they started.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    However, over the years, the fund has been raided by every politician imaginable. Clinton and Newt were the worst with their paper "surplus". If the benefits had only been taken frm dividends and other programs kept their hands out of the cookie jar, we would not be facing the collapse that is staring us in the face.
    All of this is wrong. As any trustee would, the SSTF trustees have invested the cash they don't need yet for decades. And on the other side of the table of course, ALL borrowers use the proceeds of bond sales for their own purposes. Meanwhile, the FY1999 and FY2000 budgets were in surplus even if the sizable SS surpluses were not counted.

    And there is of course no collapse of SS at all that is staring us in the face. Right-wing whackos have preached this as a way of discrediting a system that they have always hated simply because Democrats have been getting credit for it at the polls for decades, just as they will now get credit for HCR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    The sad thing is that off this had been done in the private sector, the responsible parties that stole money from the retirement fund would all be in jail....
    The exact same thing happens every day in the private sector. Nobody goes to jail. Learn to be the master of your own imagination.

  9. #139
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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    That's exactly what I meant, thanks.
    And it's exactly correct as well. Since 2005 in particular, the right-wing has been trying to convince people that the perfectly solid SS system they are paying into is somehow going to go broke, and the only thing to do is get rid of it. They have made up endless lies and repeated them often and loudly enough that some people have fallen for it all. It is total crap from start to finish.

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    Re: Social Security reserves forecast to run dry in 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Federal judges were accorded life terms specifically to INSULATE them from the whacko will of the people. The founders hated the notion of direct democracy and spent great energies in keeping that wolf from the door. It is meanwhile not now nor has it ever been necessary for a power to be specifically enumerated in the Constitution for it to exist. Powers implied exist quite equally. In fact powers lie at this moment dormant within the Constitution simply because we have not invented yet the circumstances under which they will apply.

    I don't think you have the founders intent correct. Although you are right that they didn't like a system of direct, 100% democracy, They certainly didn't want a judicary that reigned supreme over the congress either. You are advocating the making up rights out of whole cloth that rely on interpetitation of some sort of maliable whim of the day, rather than following the constitution as written.

    IOW, according to you, why have the Constitution, or congress at all? If all we need are judges that hold power to change law, and or rights on their whim, or as we have seen political reasoning, then why not just abolish our nation as it exists now, for your paradigm?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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