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Affirmative Action - Could Justice Alito's Vote Change the Game?

You've got an affirmative action (he did say he had benefited from AA) president whose intellect and academic achievements are in question and who will not release his academic record. At least that gives credence to the other poster.

We do know something about Obama's academic record. Namely, he was president of the Harvard Law Review and graduated magna cum laude, which means that he was near the top of his class.
 
You've got an affirmative action (he did say he had benefited from AA) president whose intellect and academic achievements are in question and who will not release his academic record. At least that gives credence to the other poster.

Again, another poster who has zero understand of what AA actual does. Do you also question all accomplishments of white women who rose in wealth, power and scholastic achievement because they've benefitted from AA?
 
We do know something about Obama's academic record. Namely, he was president of the Harvard Law Review and graduated magna cum laude, which means that he was near the top of his class.

certainly indicative of an AA admission* that exhibits the benefit of the AA program


this assumes that Obama's was an AA admission
 
You've got an affirmative action (he did say he had benefited from AA) president whose intellect and academic achievements are in question and who will not release his academic record. At least that gives credence to the other poster.


Not really. As they accepted one president of one race who did not met the standard, why would they be concerned about another president of another race that they don't know if he did or didn't? What do you suppose their motivation would be?
 
Well, from what I understand we're all pretty much homosapiens, so not sure how race plays a role. Now, what AA actually does is provide a system that attempts to diminish the effects fo cultural disadvantages. This was the reason for AA, and it just so happens that blacks were the target of these cultural disadvantages. We've already put to bed the notion that blacks can't learn as well as any other color of people. We already know they can. However, there is some truth (As much as it pains me to say it) to the idea that certain cultures are at a disadvantage over others in Western societies. Now as one poster already pointed out, AA is really just a band aid to a much more significant, and deeply rooted problem in American society; and that is, that black kids in this nation are subjected to Fatherless homes, rampant crime, drug and alcohol abuse, and a whole host of other things. The question is, does AA help those stuck in such a situation and is there any evidence of it actually helping? My understanding is that most blacks accepted into universities actually earned their way to at least be thinking about university to begin with. For whatever reasons they managed to get educated enough to consider post high-school educations. In this sense, then yes, AA needs to go away because those that have made it that far should not be discriminated against, no MATTER what color you are. At that juncture, admissions should be looking at test scores, aptitude, and any other measure the higher education institution uses to grade potential incoming students, but race should not be one of them.

Just my two cents.


Tim-
 
Again, another poster who has zero understand of what AA actual does. Do you also question all accomplishments of white women who rose in wealth, power and scholastic achievement because they've benefitted from AA?
I would question anybody who benefited from AA. Btw, AA gives preference to some groups over others. That's what it does.
 
I would question anybody who benefited from AA. Btw, AA gives preference to some groups over others. That's what it does.

So you would question, for example, Justice Clarence Thomas?
 
I would question anybody who benefited from AA. Btw, AA gives preference to some groups over others. That's what it does.

Prove it. Using the law itself, I challenge you to prove your position.
 
I have a honest question for those that are holding tight to the idea that AA is racist. Why are you holding so tight to the idea that it's unfair to whites? With just a cursory review of the law, you'll see that it doesn't provide any benefit to one race over another. It's not a handout.
 
but this is the crux of the reason why i defend AA (altho i believe it should be revised to focus on helping those based on economic condition rather than race)

our kids are the future. and i would prefer to have educated kids rather than drop outs my tax dollars will
go toward to cover their policing, welfare, incarceration and appearances before the court

and if they do not have supportive parents such as you and your wife, to cause them to recognize the need for a good education, to require them to attend school, to expect them to strive for academic success, then that impetus to succeed in school must come elsewhere - IF we actually want them to succeed in school

this need for government intervention when students have lousy parents is the very issue that caused me to walk away from the libertarian party. we can continue to waste our precious tax dollars not educating these kids or we can actually make our education dollars well spent. AA efforts, to provide opportunities for the underclass, remain necessary. we should pray for the day when such efforts are no longer found needed

I agree fully with your sentiment, but life and cynicism won't allow me to think government and money can really do anything about it.

There is no alternative to good parenting and a family foundation to draw from. Very few have the moxie and inner makeup to overcome the lack of it, and those who do will succeed anyway with or without some governmental facade of policy or program.

To me, you can point to a lack of family and proper parenting for every ill in every corner of the world.
 
Prove it. Using the law itself, I challenge you to prove your position.
In 2009, Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade and researcher Alexandria Walton Radford, in their book 'No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal', examined data on students applying to college in 1997 and calculated that Asian-Americans needed nearly perfect SAT scores of 1550 to have the same chance of being accepted at a top private university as whites who scored 1410 and African-Americans who got 1100. Whites were three times, Hispanics six times, and blacks more than 15 times as likely to be accepted at a US university as Asian-Americans. These results were after controlling for grades, scores, family background (legacy status) and athletic status (whether or not the student was a recruited athlete).[35]
[edit]
Affirmative action in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bit of a no-brainer really. Asian-Americans are being overtly discriminated against.
 
I have a honest question for those that are holding tight to the idea that AA is racist. Why are you holding so tight to the idea that it's unfair to whites? With just a cursory review of the law, you'll see that it doesn't provide any benefit to one race over another. It's not a handout.

Look at entry requirements for college. AA provides access for minorities with a much lesser resume of work than a white applicant at many colleges and universities.
 
In 2009, Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade and researcher Alexandria Walton Radford, in their book 'No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal', examined data on students applying to college in 1997 and calculated that Asian-Americans needed nearly perfect SAT scores of 1550 to have the same chance of being accepted at a top private university as whites who scored 1410 and African-Americans who got 1100. Whites were three times, Hispanics six times, and blacks more than 15 times as likely to be accepted at a US university as Asian-Americans. These results were after controlling for grades, scores, family background (legacy status) and athletic status (whether or not the student was a recruited athlete).[35]
[edit]
Affirmative action in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bit of a no-brainer really. Asian-Americans are being overtly discriminated against.

I see you didn't understand the question. Here, I'll add links to the executive orders to point you in the right direction:

Executive Order 10925

Executive Orders

Here's a few more items for you to peruse:

Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination: Questions And Answers

EEO Laws

Trying using the above from the actual law to substantiate your claims.
 
Look at entry requirements for college. AA provides access for minorities with a much lesser resume of work than a white applicant at many colleges and universities.

Again, how colleges judge their submissions has nothing to do with AA. It's the schools themselves that create those requirements.
 
I see you didn't understand the question. Here, I'll add links to the executive orders to point you in the right direction:

Executive Order 10925

Executive Orders

Here's a few more items for you to peruse:

Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination: Questions And Answers

EEO Laws

Trying using the above from the actual law to substantiate your claims.
I really don't care. What I posted is part of AA and it is clearly discriminatory. Unless you can prove that what I posted does not discriminate, which you can't, I am no brain-dead enough to dance around with you on this. Find some other sucker!
 
I really don't care. What I posted is part of AA and it is clearly discriminatory. Unless you can prove that what I posted does not discriminate, which you can't, I am no brain-dead enough to dance around with you on this. Find some other sucker!

The bolded part is what I'm fascinated by. Even given the correct information, you're choosing to remain ignorance and hold tight to your viewpoint. Even in the face of the facts being provided to you.

And what you posted has nothing to do with AA.

Just to add, Asian Americans benefit from AA just as much as blacks, Latinos, women, men, disabled, etc. Everyone benefits from AA.
 
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Again, how colleges judge their submissions has nothing to do with AA. It's the schools themselves that create those requirements.


shhhhhhhh theres a couple people here that dont want to know the facts they will simply ignore them because they totally make thier argument look stupid.
 
Look at entry requirements for college. AA provides access for minorities with a much lesser resume of work than a white applicant at many colleges and universities.

Again, you're assuming a criteria that really isn't the criteria. As noted earlier, even among white males, the best GPA's and SATs may not be the one's accepted. GPA's and SAT's are only cut off scores. After that, more subjective standards are applied, regardless of race.
 
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