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Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

so 1/3 always and 44 regularly. my wife has always had to get a pap smear to get birth control. which she describes as a bit less fun than a sonogram.

and the public outcry is.... nowhere.

because this isn't really about the procedure. It's about abortion.

Is it a government mandated unnecessary test or is it the clinic's policy? Your wife has the choice to go to a clinic that does not require it. Women in Virginia will not have a choice to avoid an intrusive procedure.
 
Is it a government mandated unnecessary test or is it the clinic's policy? Your wife has the choice to go to a clinic that does not require it. Women in Virginia will not have a choice to avoid an intrusive procedure.


And women in Virginia have the choice to travel to another state to have their abortion, or they can choose to have the ultrasound and abortion, or they can choose to have the ultrasound and no abortion, or they can choose to not have an abortion. Sounds like they have plenty of choices.
 
Is it a government mandated unnecessary test or is it the clinic's policy? Your wife has the choice to go to a clinic that does not require it.

actually since I live in Okinawa and have no option other than military medicine.... :) but generally you are correct; unless it's an insurance thing, which only makes for reason #1,485 why we should have individual insurance policies for healthcare like we do for everything else...

Women in Virginia will not have a choice to avoid an intrusive procedure.

sure they will. all they have to do to avoid having a sonogram is not have an abortion. the abortion itself will be far more intrusive.
 
I'm sure we can both find studies that show our side is right.

Please post more as I would read the studies.

The Ultrasound study that Mrvicchio referred to in his post used women who were "at risk" for abortions.
I have no idea what criteria they used to determine which women were "at risk."

Ultrasound Policy

In the 3 studies I posted the women who were in the studies were actively seeking abortions and the ultrasounds did not change these women's minds. They still followed through with their abortions.

http://www.livescience.com/12886-abortion-sonogram-research.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/u...-creates-logistical-issues-in-texas.html?_r=2
 
Patients who have a surgical abortion generally come in for two appointments. At the first visit we do a health assessment, perform all the necessary lab work, and do an ultrasound. This visit generally takes about an hour. At the second visit, the procedure takes place. This visit takes about an hour as well. For out of town patients for whom it would be difficult to make two trips to our office, we’re able to schedule both the initial appointment and the procedure on the same day.

The horror!!!!!!

Guess who this information comes from? The Virginia League of Planned Parenthood.

Those bastards! Already doing these invasive and unnecessary ultrasounds prior to legislation making them do it.
 
The horror!!!!!!

Guess who this information comes from? The Virginia League of Planned Parenthood.

Those bastards! Already doing these invasive and unnecessary ultrasounds prior to legislation making them do it.

You realize that there are many types of ultra sound procedures yes?

There is a distinct difference between the ultrasound procedure that uses the device upon the external portions of the stomach and one that uses a device to enter a woman's vagina and do it.

That's like saying that because a doctor uses a rubber glove when rubbing the glands under your throat then its entirely equivalent to a doctor using a rubber glove to jab his finger up your ass because in both cases they happen to be using a rubber glove.
 
You realize that there are many types of ultra sound procedures yes?

There is a distinct difference between the ultrasound procedure that uses the device upon the external portions of the stomach and one that uses a device to enter a woman's vagina and do it.

That's like saying that because a doctor uses a rubber glove when rubbing the glands under your throat then its entirely equivalent to a doctor using a rubber glove to jab his finger up your ass because in both cases they happen to be using a rubber glove.

And do you realize, that the bill that passed, doesn't specify the type of ultrasound?

If as others have stated, that a vaginal inserted ultrasound is required for all ultrasounds prior to gestational age of 12 weeks, then Planned Parenthood is already doing it.
 
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And do you realize, that the bill that passed, doesn't specify the type of ultrasound?

If as others have stated, that a vaginal inserted ultrasound is required for all ultrasounds prior to gestational age of 12 weeks, then Planned Parenthood is already doing it.

Often abdominal ultrasounds are preformed by most abortion providers as part of the standard of care in performing abortions.

The reason transvaginal ultrasounds are used in the Virginia law is because of the "hear the heartbeat" part of the law. If the gestation period is under 10 weeks the heartbeat can only be heard using a transvaginal probe.

Transvaginal Ultrasound

The point at which one hears a baby's heartbeat will depend on which device the doctor uses. The heartbeat can be heard through a transvaginal ultrasound as early as six weeks and four days gestation. During a transvaginal ultrasound, the sonographer places a probe inside the woman's vagina. This probe sends sound waves that bounce off anything solid in her body. This forms a picture of her baby and uterus. At this time, the heartbeat is audible.


Doppler Monitor

A woman may not have reason to have an early, transvaginal ultrasound. In that case, she will likely first hear the baby's heartbeat in her doctor's office at a prenatal exam when she uses a handheld Doppler monitor at about 10 weeks gestation. The doctor will place gel on her belly, which acts as a medium. Then she will place a wand on her belly, which is called the transducer. The heart can be heard beating from the speaker attached to the monitor.

How Many Weeks Before You Can Hear a Fetus Heartbeat? | eHow.com
 
Often abdominal ultrasounds are preformed by most abortion providers as part of the standard of care in performing abortions.

The reason transvaginal ultrasounds are used in the Virginia law is because of the "hear the heartbeat" part of the law. If the gestation period is under 10 weeks the heartbeat can only be heard using a transvaginal probe.



How Many Weeks Before You Can Hear a Fetus Heartbeat? | eHow.com



Except again, the word heartbeat isn't in the law. The folks writing the articles are just making crap up.

Before performing any abortion or inducing any miscarriage or terminating a pregnancy as provided in §§ 18.2-72, 18.2-73 or § 18.2-74, the physician shall obtain the informed written consent of the pregnant woman. However, if the woman has been adjudicated incapacitated by any court of competent jurisdiction or if the physician knows or has good reason to believe that such woman is incapacitated as adjudicated by a court of competent jurisdiction, then only after permission is given in writing by a parent, guardian, committee, or other person standing in loco parentis to the woman, may the physician perform the abortion or otherwise terminate the pregnancy.

B. Except in the case of a medical emergency, at least 48 hours before the performance of an abortion, a licensed physician or a qualified medical professional working under the direct supervision of a licensed physician shall perform a limited ultrasound examination on the patient undergoing the abortion to confirm the presence of a viable intrauterine pregnancy. Once the physician or medical professional determines whether such pregnancy exists, a print of the ultrasound image shall be made and a copy of the print, along with documentation of the physician or medical professional's determination as to the viability of the pregnancy, shall be maintained in the woman's medical record.

Thats it.
 
Often abdominal ultrasounds are preformed by most abortion providers as part of the standard of care in performing abortions.

The reason transvaginal ultrasounds are used in the Virginia law is because of the "hear the heartbeat" part of the law. If the gestation period is under 10 weeks the heartbeat can only be heard using a transvaginal probe.

How Many Weeks Before You Can Hear a Fetus Heartbeat? | eHow.com


Here is the bio of the person who penned this ehow article: Carrie Allison-Rolling

Carrie Allison-Rolling has been writing and working with young writers for 15 years. She earned a B.A. in English and a B.S.Ed. in English education from Northwest Missouri State University and a master's in English at the University of Missouri. Her poetry chapbook was publish by Mid-America Press. She now is a stay-at-home mother.

How does this qualify her to inform us on this topic?
 
And here's an amendment to the bill too

The qualified medical professional performing fetal ultrasound imaging pursuant to subsection B shall determine whether a fetal ultrasound image can be obtained without the use of a transvaginal ultrasound or other ultrasound method requiring vaginal penetration. The qualified medical professional performing fetal ultrasound imaging pursuant to subsection B shall not perform an ultrasound requiring vaginal penetration without the prior written consent of the pregnant woman. If the qualified medical professional performing the fetal ultrasound imaging pursuant to subsection B determines that a fetal ultrasound image can only be obtained with an ultrasound requiring vaginal penetration and the pregnant woman declines to provide written consent to an ultrasound requiring vaginal penetration, then the provisions of this section related to performance of fetal ultrasound imaging shall not apply and fetal ultrasound imaging for the purpose of determining fetal age shall not be required.
 
UPDATE:

UPDATE 2:45 P.M.:

Gov. Bob McDonnell this afternoon said he opposes requiring Virginia women to undergo a mandatory transvaginal ultrasound before having an abortion.

Having reviewed the current proposal: "I believe there is no need to direct by statute that further invasive ultrasound procedures be done," the governor said in a statement.


"Mandating an invasive procedure in order to give informed consent is not a proper role for the state. No person should be directed to undergo an invasive procedure by the state, without their consent, as a precondition to another medical procedure."

McDonnell said he has recommended to the General Assembly a series of amendments to the bill "to explicitly state that no woman in Virginia will have to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound involuntarily.""

I am asking the General Assembly to state in this legislation that only a transabdominal, or external, ultrasound will be required to satisfy the requirements to determine gestational age," McDonnell says in the statement. "Should a doctor determine that another form of ultrasound may be necessary to provide the necessary images and information that will be an issue for the doctor and the patient. The government will have no role in that medical decision," it reads.

McDonnell has tempered his earlier support for the ultrasound measure.


http://www2.insidenova.com/news/201...est-to-lampoon-va-ultrasound-bill-ar-1707568/
 
That's great. He should check the Virginia legislature website because there already was an ammendment to the bill, 7 days ago, stating exactly what he said.

Plus, the protesters should move over the Virginia Planned Parenthood offices since they just released information that they perform transvaginal ultrasounds as normal procedure during early first trimester abortions.
 
..Plus, the protesters should move over the Virginia Planned Parenthood offices since they just released information that they perform transvaginal ultrasounds as normal procedure during early first trimester abortions.

PP doesn't require transvaginal ultrasounds, under penalty of prison, for purely ideological reasons.

that is what our major beef was, and it looks like the government is backing down.

good move.
 
PP doesn't require transvaginal ultrasounds, under penalty of prison, for purely ideological reasons.

that is what our major beef was, and it looks like the government is backing down.

good move.


PP does it because it's a required medical procedure and won't perform an abortion without one done.

Pro-choice groups have been pushing back against a Virginia bill that would require women to undergo ultrasounds before an abortion procedure. The complaints are the ultrasounds are needlessly invasive, not medically necessary, and would be forced on women seeking abortions, even if they don’t want them.

This criticism misses one crucial point: Planned Parenthood policy already requires ultrasounds before abortion procedures.


“That’s just the medical standard,” said Adrienne Schreiber, an official at Planned Parenthood’s Washington, D.C., regional office. “To confirm the gestational age of the pregnancy, before any procedure is done, you do an ultrasound.”

According to Schreiber, Planned Parenthood does require women to give signed consent for abortion procedures, including the ultrasound. But if the women won’t consent to the ultrasound, the abortion cannot take place, according to the group’s national standards.
Planned Parenthood Says it Won’t Do Abortions Without Ultrasounds « Commentary Magazine

So it looks like this law merely codified a medically necessary procedure.

You just can't make up the level of bull**** in this thread crying about something that was all ready required being wrong...
 
You realize that there are many types of ultra sound procedures yes?

There is a distinct difference between the ultrasound procedure that uses the device upon the external portions of the stomach and one that uses a device to enter a woman's vagina and do it.

That's like saying that because a doctor uses a rubber glove when rubbing the glands under your throat then its entirely equivalent to a doctor using a rubber glove to jab his finger up your ass because in both cases they happen to be using a rubber glove.

No, it means you and everyone of the others crying about this were dead wrong. If they refuse the vaginal ultrasound, they get no abortion and have to wait till they're further along to use the transdermal sonogram. Pretty much the entire basis of your position has been completely, utterly, and totally shot.
 
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