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Thread: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    ...The intent is not to "punish" the mother.....
    I'm sorry, but I have yet to be convinced of that.

    this procedure, is nothing I have ever heard of before..at least in the USA.

    I know that in India, they require women to get an external sonogram of their baby...due to the horrible trend of aborting fetuses simply due to them being female. that's one thing.

    but this is different. this is requiring women to be violated by a doctor.

    change the law to an external sonogram, then I'll withdraw my outrage.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Semantics aside, do you believe life begins at conception? Yes or no.
    Yes

    Second, conservatives believe many things wherein the law doesn't agree with us at the moment.
    Agreed

    You might be against a progressive federal income tax, but that's written in to law.
    Right, and while we fight against it we also don't attempt to pass legislation that expands the power and scope of government and FURTHER limits individual freedom in hopes of combating it

    Certain hiring restrictions conservatives disagree with are law.
    Indeed. However we don't go about passing legislation that expands the power and scope of government to create additional problems with regards to what it allows the government to do.

    You might not like the corporate tax rate, that's law.
    See above.

    In other words, just saying that something is the law doesn't mean we need to be for it.
    Never said otherwise but enjoy the strawman beating if you want.

    Conservatives believe that life begins at conception.
    Yes

    Abortion IS murder
    NO...its NOT. Murder is illegal killing. Its KILLING, it's not murder. You could even go with unethical, immoral killing. But its KILLING. Its no more "murder" then shooting a terrorist on the battlefield is "murder"

    It's no different than the murder that was committed at concentration camps in the 40's.
    Something found to be ILLEGAL under international law. See, that component of LEGALITY.

    Even if you dispute the semantics, it's still plain wrong.
    Never said otherwise. But again, nice strawman beating. I never said it was wrong...what I'm saying is that its clear that its wrong without the need to use incorrect emotionally charged words rather than actually focusing on facts and issues.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I have a fairly "liberal" stance on a few social issues, but only a few hacks call me anything but a conservative. Just as an example.
    Funny, hacks are the only people who call me anything but

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    So....do we have any abortion doctors in here? Is an ultra sound NEEDED in order to perform an abortion? As in, does doing an ultra sound have SOME affect on the outcome, or success ratio, or safety, or anything else, on an abortion procedure?


    If not, then all this is, is government mandating the purchase of a product. I don't care about shoving stuff up snatches...because, frankly, they're gonna have something shove up, or come OUT, of that snatch, when the abortion is done.

    But for Uncle Sam to say, "see this procedure here? If you want it done...you HAVE to have THIS procedure first, even though it's in no way related...oh, and you gotta pay for it, too..."

    I would say that anyone supporting this, is, in many ways, WORSE than anyone supporting Obama Care, or the bailouts, etc. It's government, backing an industry...in this case, ultrasounds. With force.
    Except, as I showed, 60%+ of women that DO have this procedure, along with counciling on options OTHER THEN abortion, choose life.

    Think about that for a moment. Over 60% of at risk to abort women who see the sonogram, have the counciling decide "you know what, life is important". That says the procedure damn sure has some value if you support LIFE. I DO GET Zyphlin's point, for the record, that the legislature is using the power of government to compel women to undergo a medical procedure that isn't "necessary" to perform an abortion. And he DOES have a point that such a procedure isn't as much about medicine as it is politics. I do. But the purpose of the sonogram isn't for her so much as it is to give that child whose death is imminent a fighting chance.

    And for me, I cannot stand here and decry a child's right to live as being the lesser part of the equation. Morally, ethically, politically or spiritually. Abortion isn't a necessary procedure. It's an elective procedure, and one that kills.

    Life is precious.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Funny, hacks are the only people who call me anything but
    Someone is butthurt their progressive ideological roots keep getting exposed. You're a fairly fiscally conservative guy, but when it comes to "social issues" you go all George Bush progressive on us. You're like... Scott Brown or Olympia Snowe in terms of conservative creds.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    One issue does not revoke a persons "Conservative standing" however a track record of not standing firm for conservative clue, mouthing progressive mantra and getting cheered by liberals constantly certainly harms ones Conservative creds.

    I have a fairly "liberal" stance on a few social issues, but only a few hacks call me anything but a conservative. Just as an example.

    It's not what your stance is, it's how you arrive at it and defend it that define you.
    Agreed. I just don't believe that because one doesn't like this law it is for a liberal reason. Some who is pro-life can disagree with the law because they feel it goes TOO far.
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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Moderator's Warning:
    Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbsOK, the topic is not the lean of other posters guys.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes



    Agreed



    Right, and while we fight against it we also don't attempt to pass legislation that expands the power and scope of government and FURTHER limits individual freedom in hopes of combating it



    Indeed. However we don't go about passing legislation that expands the power and scope of government to create additional problems with regards to what it allows the government to do.



    See above.



    Never said otherwise but enjoy the strawman beating if you want.



    Yes



    NO...its NOT. Murder is illegal killing. Its KILLING, it's not murder. You could even go with unethical, immoral killing. But its KILLING. Its no more "murder" then shooting a terrorist on the battlefield is "murder"



    Something found to be ILLEGAL under international law. See, that component of LEGALITY.



    Never said otherwise. But again, nice strawman beating. I never said it was wrong...what I'm saying is that its clear that its wrong without the need to use incorrect emotionally charged words rather than actually focusing on facts and issues.
    Here's the definition of murder: Murder is unlawful killing, with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought is something that is done with a guilty mind... in other words it's being done on purpose. Killing with malice aforethought is the difference between sitting on your roof and shooting the mailman, vs accidently running over your mailman with your car.

    So, if you believe life begins at contraception, then abortion is murder. It's willful killing.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Funny, hacks are the only people who call me anything but
    By "hack," Zyphilin means "actual conservative."

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Except, as I showed, 60%+ of women that DO have this procedure, along with counciling on options OTHER THEN abortion, choose life.

    Think about that for a moment. Over 60% of at risk to abort women who see the sonogram, have the counciling decide "you know what, life is important". That says the procedure damn sure has some value if you support LIFE. I DO GET Zyphlin's point, for the record, that the legislature is using the power of government to compel women to undergo a medical procedure that isn't "necessary" to perform an abortion. And he DOES have a point that such a procedure isn't as much about medicine as it is politics. I do. But the purpose of the sonogram isn't for her so much as it is to give that child whose death is imminent a fighting chance.

    And for me, I cannot stand here and decry a child's right to live as being the lesser part of the equation. Morally, ethically, politically or spiritually. Abortion isn't a necessary procedure. It's an elective procedure, and one that kills.

    Life is precious.
    That's about as well as it can be said, right there. Bravo.

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