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Thread: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    this law won't last long enough to effect my travel or moving plans.
    Like I said, I hope your side does bring this to the supreme court.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    No, you want conservativism to fight within YOUR personal definition, which is fine. But don't expect others to do the same. One's opinion on abortion doesn't revoke them of the conservative card.
    Actually, I've been informed by PM that the correct definition for Zyphilin is "Social Progressive."

    So, my apologies. Social Progressive it is, then, not liberal.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    So....do we have any abortion doctors in here? Is an ultra sound NEEDED in order to perform an abortion? As in, does doing an ultra sound have SOME affect on the outcome, or success ratio, or safety, or anything else, on an abortion procedure?


    If not, then all this is, is government mandating the purchase of a product. I don't care about shoving stuff up snatches...because, frankly, they're gonna have something shove up, or come OUT, of that snatch, when the abortion is done.

    But for Uncle Sam to say, "see this procedure here? If you want it done...you HAVE to have THIS procedure first, even though it's in no way related...oh, and you gotta pay for it, too..."

    I would say that anyone supporting this, is, in many ways, WORSE than anyone supporting Obama Care, or the bailouts, etc. It's government, backing an industry...in this case, ultrasounds. With force.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    So....do we have any abortion doctors in here? Is an ultra sound NEEDED in order to perform an abortion? As in, does doing an ultra sound have SOME affect on the outcome, or success ratio, or safety, or anything else, on an abortion procedure?

    If not, then all this is, is government mandating the purchase of a product. I don't care about shoving stuff up snatches...because, frankly, they're gonna have something shove up, or come OUT, of that snatch, when the abortion is done.

    But for Uncle Sam to say, "see this procedure here? If you want it done...you HAVE to have THIS procedure first, even though it's in no way related...oh, and you gotta pay for it, too..."

    I would say that anyone supporting this, is, in many ways, WORSE than anyone supporting Obama Care, or the bailouts, etc. It's government, backing an industry...in this case, ultrasounds. With force.
    Agree 100%. However watch out for the onslaught of people claiming you're showing "liberal colors" by suggesting the government shouldn't be forcing people to purchase private products in order to purchase another private product.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    So....do we have any abortion doctors in here? Is an ultra sound NEEDED in order to perform an abortion?....
    come on now, we all know the answer to that.

    this procedure is 100% irrelevent to the health of the child or the mother. this is ALL about politics, & punishing the mother for daring to want to abort her ZEF.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Because naturally, what you say and actually THINK on an issue doesn't indicate what your ideological vantage point is....its what kind of "Likes" you get



    Peter Grimm is going to tell me about logic. Oh, this should be fun



    Correct



    Incorrect. As a fabled Conservative, Rush Limbaugh, says....WORDS HAVE MEANING.

    Murder = Illegal Killing.

    Abortion is systematic killing.

    Secondly, the fact that its systematic killing and life starts in the room does not in any way negate my argument that this is a violation of the principles of limited government and personal freedom. While we feel that life begins at conception, the law as it stands CURRENTLY is that abortion is legal and the child is not vested with full rights. Which means, despite our significant moral objections to it, it is a perfectly legal and allowable medical procedure. One that we absolutely should work to discourage people from doing, work to keep the government from funding, and work to provide alternatives to people for. HOWEVER, what we should NOT be doing is investing more power onto the government and taking more freedom away from people in the hopes of having a chance, not even a good certainty but a chance, that it may stop some abortions.

    If we actually had it legally established that the fetus was a child with full legal rights then there'd be absolutely ZERO issues with defending them just as we would any other child. HOWEVER, because the simple fact is it is NOT viewed as such at this point what you're doing is establishing precedent that the government has the power to limit our rights as citizens to purchase goods and services by making requirements that have no legal reasoning to be required attached to said purchase. As I said before...do this and you establish that it would be perfectly allowable and within the power of the Virginia State government to mandate that prior to purchasing ANY firearm that an individual must pay for and attend a course about "The Dangers of Firearm Ownership".

    There are other, a multitude, of other ways to work towards protecting life that does not do the damage to the notions of limited government and personal freedom. The benefits that come from the pursing of this socially conservative desire do not outweigh the outright damage and utter disregarding of fiscal and governmental conservatism that it does. It is not surprise Social Conservatives, those with such disdain for the other parts of conservatism when it doesn't fit their pet issue and portion of conservative ideology that they ACTUALLY give a damn about, would embrace something that gives the government more power and takes power away from the people when it comes to a pet issue for them. For such people, which you seem to be yourself, PRINCIPLE matters only to you with regards to social conservatism....the rest is something you use only when its convenient to you.



    Thanks for enlightening me to a statement that I say routinely. I've never suggested Conservatives are anarchist. But you can not POLICE something that isn't ILLEGAL. And despite us disliking the fact, abortion is not illegal.

    You're giving the government power to exert control over the private purchase of goods and services and giving the government power over individuals pocket books.



    It has nothing to do with how you define life. It has to do with how life is defined under the government currently and thus what that causes to be established by your actions.
    Semantics aside, do you believe life begins at conception? Yes or no.

    Second, conservatives believe many things wherein the law doesn't agree with us at the moment. You might be against a progressive federal income tax, but that's written in to law. Certain hiring restrictions conservatives disagree with are law. You might not like the corporate tax rate, that's law.

    In other words, just saying that something is the law doesn't mean we need to be for it.

    Conservatives believe that life begins at conception. Abortion IS murder, whether Websters defines it that way or not, because one is willfully ending a human life without medical need. It's no different than the murder that was committed at concentration camps in the 40's.

    Even if you dispute the semantics, it's still plain wrong.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    ...Abortion IS murder, whether Websters defines it that way or not, because one is willfully ending a human life without medical need.....
    that is NOT..the definition of murder.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    No, you want conservativism to fight within YOUR personal definition, which is fine. But don't expect others to do the same. One's opinion on abortion doesn't revoke them of the conservative card.
    One issue does not revoke a persons "Conservative standing" however a track record of not standing firm for conservative clue, mouthing progressive mantra and getting cheered by liberals constantly certainly harms ones Conservative creds.

    I have a fairly "liberal" stance on a few social issues, but only a few hacks call me anything but a conservative. Just as an example.

    It's not what your stance is, it's how you arrive at it and defend it that define you.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    . this is ALL about politics, & punishing the mother for daring to want to abort her ZEF.
    Correct regarding politics

    Incorrect on the second part, that's based on your own biased and extremely prejudiced view point of pro-life people that you'v demonstrated time and time again. The intent of most pro-lifer's in things like this is not to "punish" anyone, that's something that is pushed by pro-choice individuals who think that somehow, magically, they have the supernatural ability to read minders. The intent is to hopefully cause the mother to fully realize there is a child growing in her and choose to not go forward with the abortion, thus saving what they believe is a child's life. The intent is not to "punish" the mother. That's a fantasy passed off as fact based on the egotistical prejudices of most of the pro-choicers who push that notion.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Semantics aside, do you believe life begins at conception? Yes or no.

    Second, conservatives believe many things wherein the law doesn't agree with us at the moment. You might be against a progressive federal income tax, but that's written in to law. Certain hiring restrictions conservatives disagree with are law. You might not like the corporate tax rate, that's law.

    In other words, just saying that something is the law doesn't mean we need to be for it.

    Conservatives believe that life begins at conception. Abortion IS murder, whether Websters defines it that way or not, because one is willfully ending a human life without medical need. It's no different than the murder that was committed at concentration camps in the 40's.

    Even if you dispute the semantics, it's still plain wrong.
    This isn't about abortion, it's about government force being applied to support, back, and mandate an industry.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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