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Thread: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It's arguable this is a 4th amendment.

    But for the most part I agree, this is more of a state's right issue.

    As someone who actually lives in this state and has conservative values, mandating medically unnecessary procedures to be purchased by a person who is undergoing a private purchase of a medical treatment is NOT what the state of Virginia's government is meant for.
    I agree with all except the part about you having conservative values... that part is a ruse.

    This ought to be an issue for the state of virginia to decide. Hopefully, you liberals do contest this though, and it goes to the supreme court... we need another abortion case to hit the courts if we're going to overturn Roe v Wade.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I love how liberals cry "small government" when it suits them...

    Hollow cries they are.
    Funny...you're not just bitching about "liberals" crying small government, you're crying about conservatives doing it too.

    Also interesting, you could turn this around...How hollow your cries of "small government" elsewhere must be when you are an advocate for big government here.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I agree with all except the part about you having conservative values... that part is a ruse.
    Spare me if I don't give a **** about the opinion of whether or not I have conservative values by someone whose arguing that somehow being in favor of Limited Government and Personal Freedom is an indication of "liberal colors". Forgive me if I take your opinion on whether someone has "conservative values" with a grain of salt.

    This ought to be an issue for the state of virginia to decide.
    I agree...

    Oh hey look...I'm part of the State of Virginia. Seems I have a legitimate reason to be discussing it and stating my views on the issue according to you.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Protecting Life is a conservative issue

    Limited Government is ALSO a conservative issue

    Individual Freedom is ALSO a conservative issue

    Why is it that because I don't believe we should actively go AGAINST other conservative principles to push one particular principle is somehow "liberal colors" and yet arguing that we should expand the power of the state and limit peoples liberty by allowing the government to mandate the purchase of a private good/service to be able to partake in another private good/service isn't?

    There are NUMEROUS ways to work towards protecting life that ALSO doesn't violate the notion of Limited Government and Individual Freedom.

    I am a conservative. Not a Social Conservative, big CS, who cares ONLY for social conservative values to the point where they I would utterly reject and go abjectly AGAINST conservative fiscal and governmental principles.
    Well, your first tip-off that you're on the left on this issue should be that you're getting so many "likes" from self-ascribed liberals and progressives. That should be a clue.

    Second, your logic is flawed. Conservatives believe that life begins at conception. So, abortion is therefore systematic murder. We don't allow people to get away with murder in the name of small government and the government not wanting to get involved.

    Policing is a function of government that conservatives agree with. We are conservative, not anarchists.

    It all depends on how you define life.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well, your first tip-off that you're on the left on this issue should be that you're getting so many "likes" from self-ascribed liberals and progressives. That should be a clue.

    Second, your logic is flawed. Conservatives believe that life begins at conception. So, abortion is therefore systematic murder. We don't allow people to get away with murder in the name of small government and the government not wanting to get involved.

    Policing is a function of government that conservatives agree with. We are conservative, not anarchists.

    It all depends on how you define life.
    So conservatives are a one issue group, and that issue is abortion? Damn, some people are going to be shocked.
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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So conservatives are a one issue group, and that issue is abortion? Damn, some people are going to be shocked.
    If he wants to be on the left on social issues and on the right on economic ones, he should call himself Republican... that's fine.... but the term "conservative" is misleading for him.

    And a liberal sticking up for him, while well-intentioned, only further shows that his cause is liberal.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well, your first tip-off that you're on the left on this issue should be that you're getting so many "likes" from self-ascribed liberals and progressives. That should be a clue.

    Second, your logic is flawed. Conservatives believe that life begins at conception. So, abortion is therefore systematic murder. We don't allow people to get away with murder in the name of small government and the government not wanting to get involved.

    Policing is a function of government that conservatives agree with. We are conservative, not anarchists.

    It all depends on how you define life.
    Well hell, I should inform my more conservative friends that their personal belief on abortion makes them liberal.
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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If he wants to be on the left on social issues and on the right on economic ones, he should call himself Republican... that's fine.... but the term "conservative" is misleading for him.

    And a liberal sticking up for him, while well-intentioned, only further shows that his cause is liberal.
    No, you want conservativism to fight within YOUR personal definition, which is fine. But don't expect others to do the same. One's opinion on abortion doesn't revoke them of the conservative card.
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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well, that's your extreme opinion and you're entitled to it. My suggestion is don't live in Virginia.

    this law won't last long enough to effect my travel or moving plans.

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    Re: Va. House GOP muscles through abortion curbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well, your first tip-off that you're on the left on this issue should be that you're getting so many "likes" from self-ascribed liberals and progressives. That should be a clue.
    Because naturally, what you say and actually THINK on an issue doesn't indicate what your ideological vantage point is....its what kind of "Likes" you get

    Second, your logic is flawed.
    Peter Grimm is going to tell me about logic. Oh, this should be fun

    Conservatives believe that life begins at conception.
    Correct

    So, abortion is therefore systematic murder. We don't allow people to get away with murder in the name of small government and the government not wanting to get involved.
    Incorrect. As a fabled Conservative, Rush Limbaugh, says....WORDS HAVE MEANING.

    Murder = Illegal Killing.

    Abortion is systematic killing.

    Secondly, the fact that its systematic killing and life starts in the room does not in any way negate my argument that this is a violation of the principles of limited government and personal freedom. While we feel that life begins at conception, the law as it stands CURRENTLY is that abortion is legal and the child is not vested with full rights. Which means, despite our significant moral objections to it, it is a perfectly legal and allowable medical procedure. One that we absolutely should work to discourage people from doing, work to keep the government from funding, and work to provide alternatives to people for. HOWEVER, what we should NOT be doing is investing more power onto the government and taking more freedom away from people in the hopes of having a chance, not even a good certainty but a chance, that it may stop some abortions.

    If we actually had it legally established that the fetus was a child with full legal rights then there'd be absolutely ZERO issues with defending them just as we would any other child. HOWEVER, because the simple fact is it is NOT viewed as such at this point what you're doing is establishing precedent that the government has the power to limit our rights as citizens to purchase goods and services by making requirements that have no legal reasoning to be required attached to said purchase. As I said before...do this and you establish that it would be perfectly allowable and within the power of the Virginia State government to mandate that prior to purchasing ANY firearm that an individual must pay for and attend a course about "The Dangers of Firearm Ownership".

    There are other, a multitude, of other ways to work towards protecting life that does not do the damage to the notions of limited government and personal freedom. The benefits that come from the pursing of this socially conservative desire do not outweigh the outright damage and utter disregarding of fiscal and governmental conservatism that it does. It is not surprise Social Conservatives, those with such disdain for the other parts of conservatism when it doesn't fit their pet issue and portion of conservative ideology that they ACTUALLY give a damn about, would embrace something that gives the government more power and takes power away from the people when it comes to a pet issue for them. For such people, which you seem to be yourself, PRINCIPLE matters only to you with regards to social conservatism....the rest is something you use only when its convenient to you.

    Policing is a function of government that conservatives agree with. We are conservative, not anarchists.
    Thanks for enlightening me to a statement that I say routinely. I've never suggested Conservatives are anarchist. But you can not POLICE something that isn't ILLEGAL. And despite us disliking the fact, abortion is not illegal.

    You're giving the government power to exert control over the private purchase of goods and services and giving the government power over individuals pocket books.

    It all depends on how you define life.
    It has nothing to do with how you define life. It has to do with how life is defined under the government currently and thus what that causes to be established by your actions.

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