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Thread: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

  1. #71
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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No it is not that simple. I am on the side of US interests. US interests do not neccessarily require regime change in Iran.
    I agree. Keep the old guys there and work them like circus monkeys, while gradually introducing changes which would suit the most beneficial purpose.

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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    The problem I see with this is a third party much like a foreign government would have to be involved to effectuate a proper democracy. A democracy is my goal as well. However I do not see where this country is ready for a true democracy.

    For example, "Current Constitution adopted 2nd-3rd December 1979; significant revisions expanding presidential powers and eliminating prime ministership in 1989. Article 4 provides that all civil, penal, financial, economic, administrative, cultural, military, political, and any other laws must be based on Islamic criteria" That does not seem to allow for a true democracy where human rights would be respected.
    Well, a think one of the first things they do would be throw out the old constitution and install a brand new one. There would be no reason for them to stick with the old. I doubt they'd want to. And they probably would need a little help defining the new government with a third party, but I think that help should be as minimal as possible. It would a lot to avoid accusations of "puppet-state."

    Things would be tough for them at first, but I think a lot of governments would be willing to help ameliorate the difficulties.
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  3. #73
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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    So this is who you suggest would take over once the current thugs and lunatics are removed?



    I vast improvement I say!!!!!


    yes I suggest SuperBird! ( we better laugh while we wait for this new war huh? )



  4. #74
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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Well, what would you suggest? It seems to me that the Supreme Leader views nuclear weapons as assured immunity. Kim Jong Il demonstrated how untouchable an authoritarian can become when sitting on a couple of nukes. Perhaps the arab spring spooked them a bit, especially considering how smoothly Iran's last election went. Kim Jong's demise is probably a bit more appealing than ending up lynched with a steak knife up your ass.

    I don't see what you could offer that would convince them to surrender the kind of protection nukes would provide them.

    The nukes do not provide them any protection. The very idea of nukes only suggest annihilation. Again, my proposal would be to keep the old guys there and use them to support both US and Iranian goals such as economic stability in Iran.

    I found this to be supportive:
    Now, with Iran feeling the pressure, its leaders suddenly seem prepared to talk. Of course, Iranís government might try to draw out talks while pursuing their nuclear program. But if that is their strategy, they will face even more onerous pressures, when a planned European boycott of their oil begins on July 1.

    Moreover, given Mr. Obamaís stated determination to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, Iranís leaders may actually be making the use of force against their nuclear facilities more likely by playing for time.

    Iran can have civilian nuclear power, but it must not have nuclear weapons. Ultimately, Ayatollah Khamenei will have to decide what poses a greater threat to his rule: ending his quest for nuclear weapons or stubbornly pursuing them as crippling economic pressures mount.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/op...-a-chance.html

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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Just think how much money our economy could make if it were based on honesty, integrity, and compassion for our fellow human beings. The innovation would be awe-inspiring. Instead, our government and corporations have invested all of their energy and resources in clinging to the old ways.

    These old ways are dying, but the older generation is going to make the entire world pay in blood as they go down. It's really sad and unfortunate. It doesn't have to be this way.

    What's even worse is that the U.S. government knows that this time around the American people do not want war, and that the pre-text of nuclear weapons in Iran is not going to work; yet our President is still going to deploy the army anyway.

    The situation is getting really out of control.

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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    yes I suggest SuperBird! ( we better laugh while we wait for this new war huh? )


    There is already a war as far as I am concerned, a "shadow war" between Iran and Israel. ( a little birdy told me that chrip-chrip... )

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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    There is already a war as far as I am concerned, a "shadow war" between Iran and Israel. ( a little birdy told me that chrip-chrip... )

    chip chip

  8. #78
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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    The nukes do not provide them any protection. The very idea of nukes only suggest annihilation.
    Nonsense. Who would attack Iran once they have a nuclear arsenal? Certainly not Israel and certainly not us.

    I can only assume what you mean is that DEVELOPING nuclear weapons puts Iran at risk of annihilation? In other words, like right now Iran's quest for nuclear weapons makes them vulnerable to attack since they do not yet have a working weapon.

    My response to this is that, firstly, Iran is not certain it will trigger foreign military intervention. Hell, the U.S. doesn't know for certain and I don't believe Israel has made the decision yet either (I expect they would wait until after the election and see how things pan out first). Second, Israel and Iran really don't know how far along Iran's development is. The attack, if it comes at all, may come too late. So, basically, I think Iran is making a gamble and banking on the unknowns working out in their favor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Again, my proposal would be to keep the old guys there and use them to support both US and Iranian goals such as economic stability in Iran.
    What makes you think Iranian economic stability is a direct, primary goal of the Iranian regime? If you believe that, how would you explain Iran's willingness to subject itself to the current sanctions that are utterly crippling its economy?

    Economic stability is only an indirect, tertiary goal. The regime's primary goal is self-preservation. Very often that goes hand in hand with appeasing the populace and having a healthy economy. But not always. The only way to explain Iran's willingness to endure the current oil embargoes is that the regime views the reward of obtaining nuclear weapons as more important to self-preservation than a healthy economy.

    Again, look to North Korea. Kim Jong willingly starved millions of his people in the 90s while redirecting tremendous resources into developing the bomb. Iran sure looks to be heading down a similar path...

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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    ...yet our President is still going to deploy the army anyway.
    Come on! Obama would NEVER do that....



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    Re: US carrier crosses Hormuz against Iran threats

    more on this latest news as it happens....



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