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Thread: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Separate issue. The Catholic Church's beliefs have little to do with their ability or INability to manage their employees. I don't see it as hypocrisy at all. I see it as a very poor management style.
    But it does, it's the church's beliefs of chastity, morality and such that cause them to cover up the abuse. They need to protect their image as a moral authority, and so they cover up the abuse to that end. They can change their beliefs, and say paedophilia=good to avoid hypocrisy, or they need to admit their hypocrisy, and they are unwilling to do either.
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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    A heartbreaking look at broken trust. Continued sexual abuse while the superiors looked the other way. The apathy and negligence of these colleagues and superiors encouraged the offender to continue offending. The Catholic church has a lot to answer for before telling others what to do.


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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    I used to have knee-jerk reactions against the Church over all of the pedophile scandals, but now the #1 thing that comes to mind is, "Why do so many pedophiles seem to gravitate to the Church?" I'm not bashing Catholicism or making some kind of broader implication about Catholics here. But I mean, the wide spread abuses, are SO wide spread and numerous. What is the flaw in the Catholic system that has permitted such abominations to happen all over the world?

    Is there something about priesthood that attracts pedophilia? Is it the disguise of celebacy when really you're not? Is it the position of authority that gives you such broad discretionary powers over parishoners? Could it be that pedophiles feel safer in plain sight?

    I'm just asking these questions as discussion starters, because I'd really like to know. Also, this issue makes me wonder about OTHER faiths and their people of religious authority. What kind of abuses could be happening there?

    My own spiritual values do not permit me to give away my power to any middle man. My convenant is with God directly. So I'm wondering what permits people to turn such a blind eye to child abuse within these religious institutions?

    The Catholic church is quite big, so to say that there is a higher prevalence of pedophile in the church could be wrong. If there is a higher prevalence of child abuse, it could be because of the church policy of moving the same pedophiles around giving them more opportunity to abuse children. I suppose the position of authority could lead to these people being more likely to abuse children, but then we have people in authority in other line of work as well. Institutional policy such as celibacy and protecting the guilty might also increase the likely of these people acting, where in a different policy setting they might have been discouraged. On the other hand, the Catholic church scandal is well publicised, giving the impression that there is a higher prevalence of abuse, but for all we know, there are abuses going on in smaller institutions that we don't know about. Like the Sandusky scandal.

    Anyway, I see the Catholic Church as harmful for more than its policy of protecting pedophiles in the past, its policies on contraceptive and AIDS affect millions of people in developing countries.
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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Separate issue. The Catholic Church's beliefs have little to do with their ability or INability to manage their employees. I don't see it as hypocrisy at all. I see it as a very poor management style.
    Child abuse is not confined to the Catholic clergy.. It happens in Protestant churches, Jewish circles, Scouting, sports groups etc...

    My thoughts are that in general.. child abuse or molestation .. is and should be reported to law enforcement or social services NOT clergy.

    I would like to see the church stress that course of action instead of keeping the problem "in house".

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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Discussion?

    Article is here.
    This thing about this entire thing that's always annoyed me is that normal people would be in jail for this, yes? If it came out that 35 years ago someone sexually abused like 5 children, they would be arrested and put on trial, yes? Maybe not, maybe there really are statutes of limitation that I don't know about. But it seems that not many of these child abusing priests have ever faced legal repercussions for what they did. Are they above the law or something?
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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    You would be wrong about the LA school district not covering it up etc: Teacher at heart of LA school district molest scandal was paid $40,000 to resign - The Washington Post

    Teacher at the heart of this was paid to resign. There are ongoing investigations on what happened when, why authorities werent notified etc etc.

    Back to the OP, the church needs to have a better plan of action going forward in any abuse cases. But to then claim that voids any morality stance they may have is short sighted and near hypocrisy. Lets put it this way, Dan if you've ever done anything wrong, you have no right to voice your concern over local issues because you dont obey local laws. See how stupid that sounds when you change the context?

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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    You would be wrong about the LA school district not covering it up etc: Teacher at heart of LA school district molest scandal was paid $40,000 to resign - The Washington Post

    Teacher at the heart of this was paid to resign. There are ongoing investigations on what happened when, why authorities werent notified etc etc.

    Back to the OP, the church needs to have a better plan of action going forward in any abuse cases. But to then claim that voids any morality stance they may have is short sighted and near hypocrisy. Lets put it this way, Dan if you've ever done anything wrong, you have no right to voice your concern over local issues because you dont obey local laws. See how stupid that sounds when you change the context?
    The parents themselves are largely to blame for the Church cover ups..

    You don't report molestation to the Bishop... you report it to law enforcement.

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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    It's natural for any organization/person that derives power/money/influence, etc. from popularity/reputation to hide its problems.

    That is one reason why the Catholic church, in my opinion, is just one more human organization. If it truly believed the principals/teaching which it espoused, it would handle criminal/immoral activity within in a much more straightforward manner. If the organization cared more about following God than anything else, then this type of behavior would be publicly acknowledged and addressed.

    As to % of child molesters - I'd say that it takes an unusual sort of man to pledge to give up sex (a natural drive and function). I guess there is a potential for such a man to be superior (to make such a sacrifice for something). But, the chances are very good that such a requirement attracts men who have problems related to sex anyway. Also, if a man (in age) has been raised in such a way as to have the Catholic church do his thinking for him his entire life - so much so that he becomes a priest (maybe the exception or the rule) - does he actually ever become a man? Or, is he just an older person constantly put in situations for which he has no strength of character, experience, development, security, or maturity with which to deal?

    Men are raped by other (formerly heterosexual) men in prison. Is the Catholic church not somewhat of a prison?
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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And this is only the diocese for one single city, Milwaukee. Extrapolate this to the world, and it is easy to see that millions of children, over the years, have been sexually abused by priests and other workers in the Catholic church.... Which brings me to this point.....

    *sigh* As usual Dana, you are an accomplished writer in the manner of expressing your viewpoint, while raising eyebrows in the process. To take someone like Jeffery Anderson, and hold his point of view as that of true and proper, without question in what HIS agenda may be is astonishing. Let's take a look a Mr. Anderson shall we?

    The following is an excerpt from the “SNAP Exposed” report; the complete report on the July 8-10 conference in D.C. is available online at catholicleague.org.

    There were approximately 110-130 people in attendance. All were white and approximately 60% were female (one male wore a Voice of the Faithful T-shirt). The ages ranged from about 40-75; the majority were 55-65.

    The recurring theme of the conference was the evil nature of the Catholic Church. The word “evil” was used repeatedly to describe “the institution.” There was no presumption of innocence: accused priests were spoken of as if they were guilty, and this was true of all the participants, including the attorneys.

    William Spade, who was an Assistant District Attorney in the Philadelphia D.A.’s Office from 1995-2004, gave an overview of his work in that office. His relationship with Catholicism is eclectic. “I don’t like the institution,” he allows, “but I like the faith.”

    When Spade was in the D.A.’s office, the man he wanted to get more than anyone else was Cardinal Anthony Bevilacqua, the former Archbishop of Philadelphia (they always go after the top cleric). To Spade’s chagrin, he noted that Bevilacqua was able to escape again and again. He did not say why he always failed. After striking pay dirt, Spade went into private practice. What he drew from his experience, he told the audience, was that the best way to prosecute the Catholic Church was at the federal level.

    When it comes to attorneys who have made a career out of suing the Catholic Church, Jeffrey Anderson has no equal. The Minnesota lawyer was raised as a Lutheran. But that didn’t work out so he became a Catholic. Then he became an atheist. Not just an ordinary one—he became a self-described “dedicated atheist.” Then he had another conversion: last year he described himself as “deeply religious.” His religious convictions, however, proved not to be too deep, which is why he is now touted as an “agnostic.”

    Anderson led a legal panel at the conference that included Church-suing lawyers Jeffrey Herman and Mitchell Garabedian. Virtually the entire session was devoted to discussing the legal impediments to suing the Church. The biggest problem, they said, was the way the statute of limitations differed from state to state. Never once was it even hinted at that these statutes were written to protect the constitutional rights of the accused. Without due process, civil liberties are a sham. No matter, Anderson said he wants to see this happen globally, making it easier to sue the Catholic Church around the world.

    When Anderson said that the lawsuits are not about the money, he was speaking honestly. To be sure, money is a major motivator for his clients. But greed is not what fires him. No, what inspires him, and those of his ilk, is something deeper, something money can’t buy. Hatred. That’s the only way to understand why Anderson continues to file suit after suit against the Vatican—nothing would make him happier than to bring down the pope. Even though Anderson continues to lose, the outside chance that he might get the pope is enough to get his juices going.

    THE TRUTH ABOUT SNAP: The Real Agenda of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests - The Catholic League | The Catholic League
    This man is motivated by Hatred, not so called "justice".

    How dare the Catholic church get on it's moral high horse and tell people how to run their lives, and make demands on women regarding contraception, abortion, or what have you!!
    So you have a problem with religion, and religious freedom, is that it?

    Yes, the very same people who make these demands are the very same people who looked the other way when their priests were raping children, and some of them were not even looking the other way, but were participating in the raping of children themselves. And this goes for the Pope himself. He also looked the other way when priests were raping children, and even attempted to cover it up. And these people have the unmitigated audacity to tell others that they are going to hell?
    You are conflating the two issues here, in what I think is a disingenuous attempt to discredit the churches objection to Obama's overreach of government into religious freedom.

    And the Catholic Church has the unmitigated audacity to inject itself into politics in an attempt to force others to live their lives how they want them to? My answer to the Catholic Church is the following: Physician, heal thyself.

    Wrong, wrong, WRONG! It was Obama through HHS that injected itself into the Catholic church, and is attempting to force them to violate their long held views. And you defend this by trying to turn the table?

    You people are no more qualified to dictate morality to us than a prostitute is qualified to teach sex education to children.
    What a vile, and misguided statement Dana. But we pray for you.

    Jesus said that we should know of anything by the fruit it bears. Well, I have seen enough fruit of the Catholic Church to know that this fruit is only fit to be thrown away as garbage.

    Garbage? hmmm...Wow. That is a pretty hate filled screed you have there. Lots of rage in what you said, and to be fair, I can see how you would be mad at the church over the scandal that has rocked it so. I myself was raised Roman Catholic, and in the years since have left that religion, for Methodist teachings. But not because I hate it, nor do I hold such contempt for it as to highlight such a contemptable individual as Mr. Anderson who would like to just lay waste to the church in whole driven through hatred. I left because I have differences with doctrine, and am a better fit in the Methodist community.

    But, just as a thought of advice, I would take care when envoking the name of Jesus, when spewing such vile hate in his name sir.


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    Re: Lawyer: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I notice you haven't done a similar "attack" thread on the LA School system after dozens of children were sexually abused by multiple teachers. I wonder why that is...
    The LA School system isn't involved in national politics, and attempting at a national level to force the rest of us to live by standards itself does not live up to. Of course, you would have known that if you had actually read the first post.
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