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Thread: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

  1. #51
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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    The individuals behavior is fine.
    If this is so, why do we still have crime?

    I watched video of young kids robbing an old woman at train stop, then beating and choking her, finally throwing her onto the train tracks. I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that behavior as "fine."
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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    If this is so, why do we still have crime?

    I watched video of young kids robbing an old woman at train stop, then beating and choking her, finally throwing her onto the train tracks. I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that behavior as "fine."
    A UAV with a tow missle would have fixed the situation.

    At some point there is a limited return on your investment for security. A platform cop would have been cheaper than a UAV for the situation described. This world will never be perfect, but at least it isn't lawless or a police state. We need to find the happy medium.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    A drone can't see everything everywhere every moment. Most likely drones would be employed over "hot spots" where crime is most frequent. So if you're living in a sleep suburban neighborhood it's unlikely a drone would be monitoring there. But if I lived in a dangerous neighborhood, I would damned well insist on a drone keeping an eye out the moment I left the door.
    So we are going to only monitor dangerous neighborhoods. Which, as you pointed out, are not in suburban neighborhoods. And if we start additional monitoring in these neighborhoods, when will it become that we are oppressing a class in our society? Why would one class require more monitoring than say, millionaires?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Didn't Iran hack one of our drones and bring it down? What is to say that couldn't happen here?
    Hail to the King baby!

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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    A UAV with a tow missle would have fixed the situation.
    I'll assume sarcasm here. UAVs would best be unarmed in domestic use and relegated to surveillance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    At some point there is a limited return on your investment for security. A platform cop would have been cheaper than a UAV for the situation described. This world will never be perfect, but at least it isn't lawless or a police state. We need to find the happy medium.
    Let's assume you have 60 platforms, and 20 are in high risk areas. Then you'd need 40 full-time cops in the 20-platform high risk area (best to operate in pairs). That's a lot of cops requiring a massive budget. But with one or two UAVs you could monitor the high risk area and deploy cops as needed. You'll actually save money while providing more protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    So we are going to only monitor dangerous neighborhoods. Which, as you pointed out, are not in suburban neighborhoods. And if we start additional monitoring in these neighborhoods, when will it become that we are oppressing a class in our society? Why would one class require more monitoring than say, millionaires?
    I guess you're considering "profiling," yes? It's deploying forces to high-risk areas. It's not profiling in the slightest. If millionaires are committing crimes then you start deploying to their areas too. I don't consider police cars surveilling my neighbor an imposition of my rights, I call it safety. Their mere presence drives the criminal element away. For the same reason I would not call drone surveillance in imposition on my rights either. I would call it safety.
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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I'll assume sarcasm here. UAVs would best be unarmed in domestic use and relegated to surveillance.
    Yes it was sarcasm. But to your point, were did it say they would be unarmed for domestic use?



    Let's assume you have 60 platforms, and 20 are in high risk areas. Then you'd need 40 full-time cops in the 20-platform high risk area (best to operate in pairs). That's a lot of cops requiring a massive budget. But with one or two UAVs you could monitor the high risk area and deploy cops as needed. You'll actually save money while providing more protection.
    Being that I have experience with UAVs, I don't think they will work the way you are thinking. Wouldn't it be cheaper to have video cameras on these platforms? We can have a guy eating donuts and watching TV to take care of this. Lower cost in training too.


    I guess you're considering "profiling," yes? It's deploying forces to high-risk areas. It's not profiling in the slightest. If millionaires are committing crimes then you start deploying to their areas too. I don't consider police cars surveilling my neighbor an imposition of my rights, I call it safety. Their mere presence drives the criminal element away. For the same reason I would not call drone surveillance in imposition on my rights either. I would call it safety.
    I get what you are saying, but there is a limited return on this investment. Furthermore, it goes past the Supreme Courts ruling which was just passed down on the use of GPS systems on cars of suspects.

    The other GPS data, which implicated him in the crimes charged, was admissible, the district court concluded, because “[a] person traveling in an automobile on public thoroughfares has no reasonable expectation of privacy in his movements from one place to another.”

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit overturned the conviction, concluding the police’s use of the GPS device violated Jones’ Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, and thus the evidence obtained from the GPS was inadmissible.

    The Supreme Court unanimously agreed that police violated the Fourth Amendment. But the majority left the door open for future issues relating to a person’s expectation of privacy in a highly digital world, including whether a warrant is always required in GPS cases.
    State Bar of Wisconsin | InsideTrack | GPS tracking: U.S. Supreme Court lays foundation for future Fourth Amendment cases
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Yes it was sarcasm. But to your point, were did it say they would be unarmed for domestic use?
    I don't know that it does, but I would be opposed to domestic drones armed with military weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Being that I have experience with UAVs, I don't think they will work the way you are thinking. Wouldn't it be cheaper to have video cameras on these platforms? We can have a guy eating donuts and watching TV to take care of this. Lower cost in training too.
    My idea for handling this is also not included in the article. But if you set up an easy number to call for cell phones (999) for instance, A system could locate that cell phone and a drone could retask to survey the source of the call. Someone experiencing a crime or witnessing one could actually get a drone into the area extremely fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I get what you are saying, but there is a limited return on this investment. Furthermore, it goes past the Supreme Courts ruling which was just passed down on the use of GPS systems on cars of suspects.

    State Bar of Wisconsin | InsideTrack | GPS tracking: U.S. Supreme Court lays foundation for future Fourth Amendment cases
    I don't think a drone should be tasked to monitor cars in general. Common traffic violations should be the purview of regular mobile police. It would best be used to keep eyes on people who have already committed or are in the process of committing a crime. So probable cause rules would be in place. I don't think that would violate the supreme court's ruling.
    Last edited by EagleAye; 02-15-12 at 03:36 PM.
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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I don't know that it does, but I would be opposed to domestic drones armed with military weapons.



    My idea for handling this is also not included in the article. But if you set up an easy number to call for cell phones (999) for instance, A system could locate that cell phone and a drone could retask to survey the source of the call. Someone experiencing a crime or witnessing one could actually get a drone into the area extremely fast.



    I don't think a drone should be tasked to monitor cars in general. Common traffic violations should be the purview of regular mobile police. It would best be used to keep eyes on people who have already committed or are in the process of committing a crime. So probable cause rules would be in place. I don't think that would violate the supreme court's ruling.
    Probable cause was how the police got the warrent for the GPS. They had to throw out a lot of evidence they gathered off the GPS device.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Probable cause was how the police got the warrent for the GPS. They had to throw out a lot of evidence they gathered off the GPS device.
    It looks like they threw the evidence out because the expiration had expired, NOT because they were using a GPS tracker.
    Police had a warrant to attach the GPS, but it expired before installation, and they attached it in a jurisdiction not covered by the warrant. Thus, police installed the GPS device without a warrant
    .
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    Re: Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Why is 1984 becoming more and more of a reality?
    To be fair, with pictures and videos being voluntarily put all over Facebook, it's just as much becoming "A Brave New World."
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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