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Catholics hear anti-Obama letter in church

It was right there in the article of the thread you posted. Didn't you read the article first, or only the headline and thought, hey, this is good to throw out against the wall....


j-mac

Yes. I did ask the question re: your opinion. I remember this case from 2009... and I did read the article.

Saving a life should NOT be a mortal sin.. not a justification for ex communication.

Had the Nun Administrator refused the life saving procedure on this unfortunate mother, she would forever live with the guilt of having taken a life without cause.

One of my doctors transfused a drop in patient in end stage labor... She had four children under six at home and no prenatal care. He delivered the baby in the ER and she proceeded to hemorrhage (bleed out).. He started a life saving transfusion and her husband went crazy..

They were Jehovah's Witnesses.. He transfused her anyway.. and within a half hour a lawyer 300 miles away was threatening to sue.

Should this young doctor have allowed her to die? Should he have had to live with that on his conscience... not to mention leaving 4 young children motherless?

I was so furious.. that my inclination was that she should have had her baby in the parking lot and let her husband deliver it..
 
ah, so Catholics want the ability to have a healthcare plan that provides NO abortion, Plan B, or birth-control pills.

how about if their employees are allowed to purchase an optionl rider that covers such things? would that be enough?

Yes. See, instead of predetermining what I am going to say, try asking the question and waiting for the response.

See, Catholics get contraceptives now don't they? How are they doing that? They are buying them, but they don't buy them from the Church. And the Church is not forced to sell them to the people, either directly, or indirectly. It is called religious freedom. And whether you like it or not, it is protected.

j-mac
 
Yes. See, instead of predetermining what I am going to say, try asking the question and waiting for the response.

See, Catholics get contraceptives now don't they? How are they doing that? They are buying them, but they don't buy them from the Church. And the Church is not forced to sell them to the people, either directly, or indirectly. It is called religious freedom. And whether you like it or not, it is protected.

j-mac

how about an optional rider, that includes birth control pills?

would that upset the sensibilities of the Pope?
 
how about an optional rider, that includes birth control pills?

would that upset the sensibilities of the Pope?

Funny thing.. Muslims practice birth control.. While children are considered a blessing and family is encouraged.. birth control is seen as a way of spacing children for the health of the mother and new born.

I can't say I really understand the Catholic Church, yet they have the right to their doctrine. I just wonder about all those otherwise observant Catholics who practice birth control... Can they take communion or are they forced into hypocrisy?
 
how about an optional rider, that includes birth control pills?

would that upset the sensibilities of the Pope?


I don't presume to speak for the Pope, but I already said yes.


j-mac
 
Funny thing.. Muslims practice birth control.. While children are considered a blessing and family is encouraged.. birth control is seen as a way of spacing children for the health of the mother and new born.

I can't say I really understand the Catholic Church, yet they have the right to their doctrine. I just wonder about all those otherwise observant Catholics who practice birth control... Can they take communion or are they forced into hypocrisy?

Most in my experience are hypocrites, religiously speaking, which is one of the reasons that I had a twenty year plus foray into agnosticism, before joining a Methodist Church.


j-mac
 
Most in my experience are hypocrites, religiously speaking, which is one of the reasons that I had a twenty year plus foray into agnosticism, before joining a Methodist Church.


j-mac

LOLOL..

I had asked you earlier about the blood transfusion...

This hospital was in SC btw.........
 
well, that's his damn problem.


Yep, in my opinion it is. But, the question isn't really about the Pope as an individual, or a leader. Church doctrine is what it is, but the idea you had of a ryder that the insured buys, would be one way I think could be a solution.

j-mac
 
Yep, in my opinion it is. But, the question isn't really about the Pope as an individual, or a leader. Church doctrine is what it is, but the idea you had of a ryder that the insured buys, would be one way I think could be a solution.

j-mac

yeah, but extremists, who simply see this as part of the Holy War against Obama, will be satisfied by nothing.
 
yeah, but extremists, who simply see this as part of the Holy War against Obama, will be satisfied by nothing.


You have to wonder though, if we can come up with this, you telling me that the crack team at the WH can't?

j-mac
 
Wrong. Obama gave the Catholics what they wanted. They will no longer be required to offer free birth control.

Instead, they will be required to pay another entity—a middleman—to offer “free” birth control. The result is the same. The catholic organizations will be required to pay money, that will be used to provide “free” birth control. A difference that makes no difference, is no difference.
 
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Alright, so we have established that no hospital, whether religious or not, should have the right to turn away a sick or injured person, simply based on their sexuality or religion. Glad to hear it.

With neither confirming nor denying this, where was this "established"? :roll:


Meanwhile, which medical services should a religious-oriented establishment not have to pay for?

condoms, the pill, abortion, treatment of bris complications?

and even if the money is TOTALLY fronted by the HMO, its still not enough?

what would be enough? literally forbidding the HMO from providing such services or medication?

where does it end?

Already told you why it's a red herring of a comparison. This is nonsense.
 
ah, so Catholics want the ability to have a healthcare plan that provides NO abortion, Plan B, or birth-control pills.

how about if their employees are allowed to purchase an optionl rider that covers such things? would that be enough?

If the employees pay for it themselves, why would they have problem with it?


thought not. this is about controlling the health of their employees.

That's just anti-Catholic libel, as have been most of your posts on the matter.
 
With neither confirming nor denying this, where was this "established"? :roll:...

oh, so you don't agree, that a religious-oriented hospital should NOT have the right to turn away a sick Jew or gay, simply on religious grounds?
 
ah, so Catholics want the ability to have a healthcare plan that provides NO abortion, Plan B, or birth-control pills.

how about if their employees are allowed to purchase an optionl [sic] rider that covers such things? would that be enough?

That seems entirely reasonable to me. A perfect compromise. As long as the Catholic institution is not forced to be, in any way, a party to those things that it finds are immoral, and the “optional rider” is provided by a third-party, with which the catholic institution is not compelled to have any connection or dealings.
 
oh, so you don't agree, that a religious-oriented hospital should NOT have the right to turn away a sick Jew or gay, simply on religious grounds?

What part of "with neither confirming nor denying" troubled you? I'm merely exposing your stolen bases, and quoted this sentence just to emphasize its construction.
 
That seems entirely reasonable to me. A perfect compromise. As long as the Catholic institution is not forced to be, in any way, a party to those things that it finds are immoral, and the “optional rider” is provided by a third-party, with which the catholic institution is not compelled to have any connection or dealings.

its the exact same compromise developed for abortion and "Obamacare"
 
ah, so Catholics want the ability to have a healthcare plan that provides NO abortion, Plan B, or birth-control pills.

how about if their employees are allowed to purchase an optionl rider that covers such things? would that be enough?

thought not. this is about controlling the health of their employees.

I don't think anyone would object to employees being able to purchase this additional coverage if they so chose. As a Catholic, I wouldn't oppose it. I just oppose FORCING people of Faith to pay directly for something that goes against their fundamental beliefs. I once worked for a Buddhist school and I under no circumstances would expect them to pay for me to have meat or onions/garlic at a school gathering.
 
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