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Thread: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that would be gun registration which is not currently legal and should not be
    no, its not gun registration.

    digitized records as opposed to paper records...is simply an technological update.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    ...By monitoring gun-sales you are putting one more restraint on citizens rights. A background check could have a chilling effect on law abiding citizens who would like to own a gun.
    you clearly don't own a gun, or know much about gun laws.

    all gun sales require a background check, accept for private sales and gun-show sales.

    and even many of the gun shows now have instant background checks.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    as TD will confirm, most background checks are indeed pretty much instant.

    however, gun retail & wholesale records are sent to the ATF on paper...at the dealers whim, when he feels like it.

    that should change, it should be digitized & instant.
    If that were the case, then I could say that checks could absolutely be required by everyone at a gun show. However, what are the chances of that? We can't even get liberals to agree that ID is required to vote.


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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You don't know the first thing about guns. So why do you feel your opinion on checks matter?
    we're not talking about the machanics of firearms. we're talking about gun laws.

    if you want to start another thread about the in's & out's of specific firearms, feel free.

    and btw, I have shot more than a couple guns in my lifetime.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If that were the case, then I could say that checks could absolutely be required by everyone at a gun show...
    it is the case. ask TD.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    we'e not talking about someone accused of a crime, now are we?

    we're talking about folks wanting to buy a firearm. and if background checks can be instant & easy to produce for everyone, there should be no problem.

    ........but that's only if you want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
    Background checks as they exist today are instant and easy to produce for everyone, and there is no problem. In Va, at least, a check takes less than 30 minutes under most circumstances, and convicted felons are barred from owning guns legally. So what is the problem?

    I've said before, and I tend to remain consistent in my positions, I am not unhappy with federal regulations as they exist today. I have a problem with the states having the right to regulate my transportation of a personal weapon through their state. Someone in this thread stated that the states do not have the right to regulate lawful travel from state to state. So why should the states have the right to deny my rights to free travel, yet not have the right to regulate boat travel?

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    no, its not gun registration.

    digitized records as opposed to paper records...is simply an technological update.

    let me explain something you clearly don't understand

    the dealers keep a record of who filled out 4473 forms and they keep a log of say a beretta 92 serial number BER00066555 that they received from Beretta USA that they sold to Johnny THunder on May 10, 2011. They don't send EITHER document to the ATF unless they close. If they close all such documents are sent to the ATF but there is no authority that allows the ATF to make copies of these documents for active shops nor create a data base of gun ownership from close shops. I believe dealers only have to keep records going back 7 years but I haven't checked the law since I actually represented dealers many years ago.

    The ATF got in trouble with violating its powers. for example, under clinton they tried to do what was called a FORWARD trace to create statistics to help Clinton promote his moronic gun ban. They would go to FFL shops and root through the 4473s looking for sales of "assault weapons" and then take down the names of the purchasers even though there was no actual investigation concerning the weapons in question. Then clinton or his turds would claim that the ATF was tracing thousands of assault weapons hoping to convince the weak minded that these guns obviously were engaged in sinister activities due to these "official traces"

    highly illegal

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Background checks as they exist today are instant and easy to produce for everyone, and there is no problem. In Va, at least, a check takes less than 30 minutes under most circumstances, and convicted felons are barred from owning guns legally. So what is the problem?
    In that case, then I have none. Now we can get back to how Bloomberg overstepped his authority.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    you clearly don't own a gun, or know much about gun laws.

    all gun sales require a background check, accept for private sales and gun-show sales.

    and even many of the gun shows now have instant background checks.
    A. Own a gun.
    B. Obviously have had a background check done as I obtained my gun legally.
    C. Digitizing is what scares people and makes it easier for the government to track people.
    D. You never answered my question about Ruby Ridge and the colossal errors of the DOJ when it came to a law abiding citizen owning guns.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    On should never, ever, under any circumstances, be required to prove that he is entitled to exercise a Constitutionally-protected right.

    The burden should always be is on one who wishes to deny the exercise of a right.
    sure, that's fine.

    swipe your drivers license so I can make sure you ain't a felon and have the right to own a firearm.

    or, give me your drivers license number, so I can look it up on the national database.

    instant background check.

    No.

    I am not under any obligation to prove that I am entitled to exercise a right. Not even to the point of showing you my driver's license or any other identification.

    If you want to deny me the right to buy a gun, then it's on you to show up at the gun store, with documentation that proves that I am someone to whom that right may legitimately be denied. Perhaps a “wanted”*poster with my picture and name, showing that I am a fugitive charged with a felony.

    The burden of proof belongs on the side that wants to deny someone a right; and not ever on someone who wants to exercise a right.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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