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Thread: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

  1. #291
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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The second and tenth amendments clearly demonstrate that the federal government has no sound or proper involvement in this issue

    and making private sellers do background checks is doomed to failure unless there is complete gun registration which of course is both unconstitutional and an impossibility to achieve
    Does the dormant commerce clause ring any bells for you? Have you actually passed a bar exam?

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    never said that-it has no bearing on our individual rights and more importantly, nothing in the BoR delegated power to the federal government

    off to lunch BBL
    you speak as though the 2nd Amendment was passed within a vacuum, with no related laws pased before it.....or after it.

    The Constitution first spells out the well-regulated Militia in Article 1 Section 8...and then the Militia is discussed again in the Militia Act of 1792.

    clearly, an intelligent understanding of the issue shows that the right to keep & bear arms was recognized as part of the government regulated, supervised, trained, and organized citizen Militia, which would be called up in times of rebellion, insurrection, war, and other emergencies.

    various citizen Militias were called up during the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, and other events. However, the Militia Act of 1903 unified many nation-wide militias into the National Guard, which would now be armed by the government.

    the citizen volunteer Militia no longer exists.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Does the dormant commerce clause ring any bells for you? Have you actually passed a bar exam?

    Acedemic pedegree does not out weigh the strength of the argument.


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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    you speak as though the 2nd Amendment was passed within a vacuum, with no related laws pased before it.....or after it.

    The Constitution first spells out the well-regulated Militia in Article 1 Section 8...and then the Militia is discussed again in the Militia Act of 1792.

    clearly, an intelligent understanding of the issue shows that the right to keep & bear arms was recognized as part of the government regulated, supervised, trained, and organized citizen Militia, which would be called up in times of rebellion, insurrection, war, and other emergencies.

    various citizen Militias were called up during the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, and other events. However, the Militia Act of 1903 unified many nation-wide militias into the National Guard, which would now be armed by the government.

    the citizen volunteer Militia no longer exists.

    So considering your interpetitation of the amendment, no one today should be allowed to own a gun? Other than military?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So considering your interpetitation of the amendment, no one today should be allowed to own a gun? Other than military?

    j-mac
    no, I believe we should have the right to own firearms for personal safety.

    but I don't believe the 2nd Amendment is valid any longer, as the citizen Militia hasn't existed in almost a century.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    no, I believe we should have the right to own firearms for personal safety.

    but I don't believe the 2nd Amendment is valid any longer, as the citizen Militia hasn't existed in almost a century.

    Are you saying that you just get to ignore amendments as invalid when it suits you, or is there a process to change the document?

    j-mac
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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Acedemic pedegree does not out weigh the strength of the argument.


    j-mac
    The commerce clause negates the argument. The academic pedgiree means that TD is aware that he is making a false argument.
    Last edited by AdamT; 02-12-12 at 01:46 PM.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The commerce clause negates the argument. The academic pedgiree means that TD is aware that he is making a false argument.
    Yeah Ive seen liberals apply the commerce clause that way, it usually means as in this instance :"whatever I want".

    Commerce clause needs to be walked back quite a lot, its used as justification for a lot of intrusions that would not have been acceptable by previous courts. The tenth is near non-existence as an argument due to the over riding influence of the commerce clause on tons of cases. It strengthens the fed but leaves that same government less accountable to the states and ultimately the people because local politics are a lot easier to change.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are you saying that you just get to ignore amendments as invalid when it suits you, or is there a process to change the document?

    j-mac
    strawman. I didn't say we should ignore the 2nd Amendment because it doesn't suit me. I said its no longer valid, as the citizen Militia no longer exists.

    learn the difference.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Yeah Ive seen liberals apply the commerce clause that way, it usually means as in this instance :"whatever I want".

    Commerce clause needs to be walked back quite a lot, its used as justification for a lot of intrusions that would not have been acceptable by previous courts. The tenth is near non-existence as an argument due to the over riding influence of the commerce clause on tons of cases. It strengthens the fed but leaves that same government less accountable to the states and ultimately the people because local politics are a lot easier to change.
    It isn't "liberals" that apply the commerce clause that way; it is nearly a century of Supreme Court precedent that applies the commerce clause that way.

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