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Thread: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

  1. #271
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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, if I have this correct, Adam, and others are in here arguing that this so called 'loophole', which BTW, is not even nationwide, nearly half the states have restricting law on the books concerning shows, or private sales, but that they want a law on the Federal level restricting sales by private individuals. However, their problem that they can't get around here is that pesky Constitution, and their never ending seeming ignorance of who holds, or derives power as the framers set up our system of government.

    Which is why earlier I made the statement of how communities could govern these matters for themselves, and those that don't agree to give up their constitutional rights to the overlord of liberal/progressive government can move. But see, this is part of the incrementalism that I spoke of also. The ultimate goal of any progressive, is to drain the rights of an individual as we believe them to be granted, of divine providence, and shift that to rights granted by man, and or government.

    Now, when that happens, what man giveth, man taketh away.


    j-mac
    The question is simply whether individuals should be required to pass a background check before purchasing from a private seller as they are presently required to do when they purchase from a registered dealer.

    My opinion is that most gun rights advocates are hypocrites and/or lack the courage of their convictions. They will argue that even moderate government restrictions on gun ownership are unconstitutional ... BUT they claim to support the law that prohibits the sale of guns to convicted felons ... BUT they oppose background checks that are necessary to enforce the prohibition on gun sales to felons.

    And my challenge is this: if you argue that restrictions on gun sales are unconstitutional, have the courage of your convictions and oppose the restrictions on gun sales to felons. If, on the other hand, you concede that the government should try to limit gun sales to felons, have the courage of your convictions and support the elimination of the gun show (or if you prefer, private sale) loophole that guts the effectiveness of the background check system.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The question is simply whether individuals should be required to pass a background check before purchasing from a private seller as they are presently required to do when they purchase from a registered dealer.....
    no one should be able to buy a gun without proof that they are legally allowed to purchase a firearm.

    there are three ways around this:

    a. set up computers at police stations where private gun-sellers can look up potential buyers to see if they are kosher.

    b. add information on everyone's drivers license, stating if they are allowed to own a firearm. create a national website where this info can be easily looked up and updated by local authorities.

    c. ban personal sale of firearms. (won't work as you can't enforce it without registration).

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    no one should be able to buy a gun without proof that they are legally allowed to purchase a firearm.

    there are three ways around this:

    a. set up computers at police stations where private gun-sellers can look up potential buyers to see if they are kosher.

    b. add information on everyone's drivers license, stating if they are allowed to own a firearm. create a national website where this info can be easily looked up and updated by local authorities.

    c. ban personal sale of firearms. (won't work as you can't enforce it without registration).
    I think the best solution would be:

    d. give (web/phone) access to individuals so that they can perform background checks on themselves and receive in the mail an official certificate authorizing them to purchase guns from whomever they want. The certificates could have a six month to one-year expiration, and would be easily renewable via a PIN number, so one would only have to enter changed inforamtion.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I think the best solution would be:

    d. give (web/phone) access to individuals so that they can perform background checks on themselves and receive in the mail an official certificate authorizing them to purchase guns from whomever they want. The certificates could have a six month to one-year expiration, and would be easily renewable via a PIN number, so one would only have to enter changed inforamtion.
    naaa...just add firearms info on drivers licenses. since we all have them, its the cheapest & most efficient solution.

    add a national database for private sellers to see if that drivers license is allowed to buy a gun.

    but of course, this won't stop criminals from selling guns.

    but at least it will help the average Joe know for sure if he is selling a gun to a good guy.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    naaa...just add firearms info on drivers licenses. since we all have them, its the cheapest & most efficient solution.

    add a national database for private sellers to see if that drivers license is allowed to buy a gun.

    but of course, this won't stop criminals from selling guns.

    but at leats it will help the average Joe know for sure if he is selling a gun to a good guy.
    Problem there is that in many states drivers' licenses are valid for eight years or more. Someone could commit a violent felony, serve a multi-year sentence, get paroled, and still have a license that authorizes gun purchases.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    what part of "well-regulated militia", don't YOU understand?

    if a well-regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state, then I guess we are not a free state as we haven't had a government regulated citizen militia in more than a century.
    well regulated militia has no use in determining our rights under the second, ninth and tenth amendments.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    As you know perfectly well, the gun show loophole is the popular name given to the loophole in the BG check law that allows non-"dealers" to sell guns without background checks. How does feigning ignorance advance your argument?
    Its a neologism (thanks HM) that the ARC created to dishonestly try to infringe on our rights

    there is no different laws that apply to gun shows.

    as to ignorance-your posts are full of them

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well regulated militia has no use in determining our rights under the second, ninth and tenth amendments.
    with all due respect, I don't think it was put in the 2nd Amendment for no reason. Nevermind the fact that the organization of this Militia was clarrified in the Militia Act of 1792. It was clearly a government-organized, trained, and supervised organization.

    one that has not existed for decades in this country, and who's function has been totally taken over by the National Guard.

    hell, just look up "New York State Militia".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Re...State_Militia)

    clearly, the Militia isn't just some group of guys with guns.

    its organized, trained, and supervised by the state.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Act_of_1903

    this act, formalized the nation-wide militias into the unified National Guard.
    Last edited by Thunder; 02-12-12 at 01:00 PM.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The question is simply whether individuals should be required to pass a background check before purchasing from a private seller as they are presently required to do when they purchase from a registered dealer.

    My opinion is that most gun rights advocates are hypocrites and/or lack the courage of their convictions. They will argue that even moderate government restrictions on gun ownership are unconstitutional ... BUT they claim to support the law that prohibits the sale of guns to convicted felons ... BUT they oppose background checks that are necessary to enforce the prohibition on gun sales to felons.

    And my challenge is this: if you argue that restrictions on gun sales are unconstitutional, have the courage of your convictions and oppose the restrictions on gun sales to felons. If, on the other hand, you concede that the government should try to limit gun sales to felons, have the courage of your convictions and support the elimination of the gun show (or if you prefer, private sale) loophole that guts the effectiveness of the background check system.
    you are confused as usual

    supporting a law that prohibits felons from owning guns does not require we support making individuals conduct background checks mainly because the practical aspects of that are such that this requirement is worthless.

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    Re: NYC Mayor Conducts Gun-Sale Sting in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its a neologism (thanks HM) that the ARC created to dishonestly try to infringe on our rights

    there is no different laws that apply to gun shows.

    as to ignorance-your posts are full of them
    You are welcome Turtle. I am glad my efforts have paid off in some real learning.
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