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Thread: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

  1. #421
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Having a vagina or a penis between your legs has nothing to do with how good of a parent you are. The whole notion that kids require opposite sex parents in order to grow into a stable adult is completely ridiculous.
    And, of course, completely irrelevant to Prop 8.

    Prop 8 is about marriage, not parenthood. Prop 8 seeks to reiterate for CA government administrators that there is one and only one set of proper recipients of a marriage license: a man and a woman as husband and wife.

    One does not have to be married to be a parent, and I would imagine a gay couple could make just as good a parents as a straight couple.

    Your question stimulates a new thought for me, though.

    Does a straight couple who are parents make better parents for straight kids than gay kids .. and do a gay couple who are parents make better parents for gay kids than straight kids?

    Much about good parenting is being an effective good role model of adult romantic behavior.

    When it comes to such role modeling, that's about a whole lot more than just the form of going through the motions -- it's about the substance of such, and that includes who and what the parents are.

    A straight couple can model well romantically their roles, but their gay kid may end up a bit substantively confused, as by both physiological and psychological nature, there are significant substantive differences exemplified in romantic relating and roles in straight couples compared to either type of gay couples.

    Not that there is anything that can or should be "done" in recognition of this .. but the thought just struck me and I decided to post it.
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  2. #422
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    And, of course, completely irrelevant to Prop 8.

    Prop 8 is about marriage, not parenthood.
    I was responding to Navy's notion that gay parents are incapable of raising a stable child.

  3. #423
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    And, of course, completely irrelevant to Prop 8
    The defense for Prop 8 was that designating marriage for heterosexual cuoples was for the purpose of promoting procreation and optimal parenting.
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    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The defense for Prop 8 was that designating marriage for heterosexual cuoples was for the purpose of promoting procreation and optimal parenting.
    That defense of Prop 8 is not what Prop 8 is about.

    Prop 8 is simply about reiterating to CA administrators that there is one and only one proper set of recipients for a marriage licence: a man and a woman as husband and wife.

    That precise defense you present did not occur, but a very similar defense was forced upon those stepping up to defend Prop 8 when the loathesome AG, Jerry Brown, who had already said he would defend against whatever challenge was made to whatever result occurred in the vote, then egregiously reneged once the electorate didn't vote his way.

    Judicial protocol would have allowed the AG to defend with appeal to the one and only definition of marriage: between a man and a woman as husband and wife.

    But for some strange rule of legal protocol, the originators of Prop 8, by virtue of who they were and who they weren't in the eyes of the judicial system, were not allowed to begin argument in defense of Prop 8 on definitive face value -- the reasonable and customary subject applicability test -- but were ludicrously forced by this really absurd judicial protocol to go right to the legitimate state interest test.

    Of course, the best they could then come up with was flimsy at best, as it never should have gotten that far, because the more foundational reasonable and customary subject applicability test -- to which the AG would have been allowed to appeal and to which any defenders should really have been allowed to appeal -- would have ended the case with understandable confirmation of Prop 8 without ever having to move on to the next-phase legitimate state interest test.

    That a combination of Jerry Brown's horrific lack of integrity and this strange legal protocol is basically subverting justice in the case is sad .. but par for the course in liberal land CA.
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Having a vagina or a penis between your legs has nothing to do with how good of a parent you are. The whole notion that kids require opposite sex parents in order to grow into a stable adult is completely ridiculous.
    At the very least a mother nurtures a child. a man no matter how hard he trys can not do that.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    ask me, the answer is no she didnt. My mom is an awesome caring kind loving person and Id be less without her but none of those qualities are dependent on her being a women. They depend on her heart, mind and love for me

    Sorry time and time again it has been proven that a child does equally well with any two caring loving guardians. This fact doesn't need your acceptance because it will still be a fact with or without it.
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    And that is baseless.
    When he has nothing constructive to add he tends to fall back on insults. It is his MO.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can always pull out bad examples but the good examples out weigh the bads ones a million to one.........The best way to raise a child is with a mother and father. It is hard enough to raise them that way as it is.
    Let's reexamine what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride
    Sorry CC two men can not raise a child as good as a mother and father. a mother has a roll and no matter hoew a gay man pretends to be a wife or mother it just is not the same as having a real mother.
    So you take back that two gays cannot raise a child as good as a straight couple? The fact that you put yourself into a completely indefensiveness position and then try to weasel out it at the same time trying to salvage what microscopic specs of credibility you have left is utterly hilarious.

    There are plenty of screwed up kids raised by straight parents. There are plenty of screwed up kids raised by gay parents. You cannot toss around massive broad statements like you do and expect NOT to get your proverbial *** kicked here.

    And are you going to explicitly answer my question? Or are you as predicted going to cowardly weasel out of acting like a man?
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Prop 8 is simply about reiterating to CA administrators that there is one and only one proper set of recipients for a marriage licence: a man and a woman as husband and wife.
    The constitution already covers that. And it trumps a proposition, a referendum, or really anything else that can be voted on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    At the very least a mother nurtures a child. a man no matter how hard he trys can not do that.
    Alright, I'm curious. What activities are you considering "nurturing", and what exactly precludes a father from doing them? Or is nurturing limited to breast feeding? Because, off the top of my head, that's the only thing a mother can do that a father cannot.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Maybe, I hope God destroys the world before that happens.......It just might be the last straw for him.
    Apparently wiping out thousands of civilians in a blink of an eye is worse then gay marriage to God in your opinion. Mass systematical genocide and rape is worse then gay marriage to God in your opinion. Allowing millions to starve to death is worse then gay marriage to God in your opinion.

    I'm not one to declare people Christians or not Christians, but your stance on God casts some serious doubt if you can ever be called a Christian with those beliefs of God.

    at this point no state that has taken a vote has approved gay marriage...The only way it has been approved is by activist judges and in Iowa the judges that approved it were thrown out of office on their azz.
    Therefore removing Jim Crow laws were bad. Desegregation was bad. Allowing interracial marriage is bad. Do you ever learn your lesson about putting yourself is completely indefensible positions?

    31 state have constitutional amendments defining marriage as a un ion between a man and a woman. There will be more in November including Washington State where I live. I am hoping we can take the senate and the presidency and get to work on a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. That would be nice before I kick the bucket.
    It's amusing you call yourself a God Fear Christian yet you have so much hate towards your fellow American.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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