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Thread: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

  1. #241
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You have no understanding of the difference between "equal application" and "equal protection". I could make a law that argues that people are only allowed to marry their own race. That law would be considered "equal application" since only whites could marry whites and blacks could marry blacks. However, that law would not be equal protection since the government is arbitrarily using race to apply restrictions to civil rights. Same sex marriage bans are equal application but are not equal protection since the government is arbitrarily using sex to apply restrictions to civil rights.

    Nice try though. Pretending that "equal application of the law" is the same as "equal protection of the law" is the same strategy that was used by segregationists for decades. You have certainly fallen quite a bit if that is the playbook you have decided to borrow from in this debate.
    Gender is not sexual orientation. Where have the two ever been treated equally?

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Actually all those marriages are still in effect and recognized in California.
    They won't be if prop 8 is upheld
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You are the person asserting that the 9th is overruled more than any other court and you can't even back it up?

    Happy to see you haven't changed NP.
    Its not even in question. everyone I guess except you knows that........Its been posted on threads a dozen times.......even Redress knows that
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    Because the state does not have to justify it's law. The plaintiff has to show he is harmed by it.
    The state did. Hence why the Appeals Court ruled it unconstitutional.

    No, it doesn't. The people of California amended their Constitution with a valid law. We've already discussed that Prop 8 could be upheld and the marriages that took place before could remain valid.
    The marriages that took place before Prop 8 are already valid. This court case had nothing to do with them. And Prop 8 is not a valid law. It has been determined by an appeals court to be unconstitutional.

    You're asking me to paraphrase Smith? Really? Sorry, teach, I didn't take notes. My focus on his opinion was on how Romer doesn't control. he did talk about responsible procreation and the optimal parenting rationale, and he felt generaly that we should be cautious about redefing marriage.
    Close enough.

    Wow. I met the "shadow of a doubt" threshold! Go me!
    An interesting thing you learn in academia is the difference between skimmers and comprehenders. Skimmers read enough to repeat what other people have said and then present it as their own ideas and pretend that what they say is self evident fact. Comprehenders read to understand the issue and then study to see if what was said is true and then report their opinions based on the evidence they encountered.

    You are a Skimmer. I've shown that to be true in the last few posts by simply asking whether you were capable of showing even a basic comprehension of this case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    Gender is not sexual orientation. Where have the two ever been treated equally?
    No, gender is not sexual orientation. But let us consider marriage under Prop 8.

    A man can marry a woman but a woman cannot marry a woman.
    A woman can marry a man but a man cannot marry a man.

    Each sex has a right that the other does not. That is an arbitrary infringement by the government on the civil rights of men and women based on nothing other than their sex. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. It is gender discrimination pure and simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Name one country or state that has legalized same sex marriage that has allowed the partnerships you described.

    I'll help you out. It hasn't happened. Your fear mongering is disproved by reality NP.

    If gay marriage is legal then you will have a whole bunch of others groups wanting the same right..........will you allow gays and discriminate against them? talk about a hypocrite.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    They won't be if prop 8 is upheld
    Actually, they are currently recognized in California as valid. They were before the appeals court ruling and they were after. Those marriages have nothing to do with Prop 8 since they were perfectly legal before the referendum. In other words, they were grandfathered in.

    The irony of Prop 8 is that it didn't actually eliminate same sex marriage from California. There are over 3,000 same sex couples who have marriages recognized in California simply because they got married before Prop 8.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 02-08-12 at 01:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    If gay marriage is legal then you will have a whole bunch of others groups wanting the same right..........will you allow gays and discriminate against them? talk about a hypocrite.
    I confess... I want to have a polygamist and a gay marriage with NP
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The state did. Hence why the Appeals Court ruled it unconstitutional.
    They struck it down based on Romer, which has nothing to do with marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The marriages that took place before Prop 8 are already valid. This court case had nothing to do with them. And Prop 8 is not a valid law. It has been determined by an appeals court to be unconstitutional.
    You keep saying that.

    When a court comes to a decision, the people have a right to remedy through amendment - that is valid law. The appeals process is not over. This isn't settled.


    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    An interesting thing you learn in academia is the difference between skimmers and comprehenders. Skimmers read enough to repeat what other people have said and then present it as their own ideas and pretend that what they say is self evident fact. Comprehenders read to understand the issue and then study to see if what was said is true and then report their opinions based on the evidence they encountered.

    You are a Skimmer. I've shown that to be true in the last few posts by simply asking whether you were capable of showing even a basic comprehension of this case.
    And you know what I think you are.

    Listen, I'm sorry if my reading and comprehension skills, or my abilities to analyze 100 pages of legal opinion fall short of your standards. I do thank you for your kind and patient attention.

  10. #250
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    No, gender is not sexual orientation. But let us consider marriage under Prop 8.

    A man can marry a woman but a woman cannot marry a woman.
    A woman can marry a man but a man cannot marry a man.

    Each sex has a right that the other does not. That is an arbitrary infringement by the government on the civil rights of men and women based on nothing other than their sex. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. It is gender discrimination pure and simple.
    It would be if men could marry men, but women could not marry women.

    As it is, you have described current marriage law as it has always been undestood. Nothing more. Nothing less.

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