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Thread: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

  1. #191
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    I apologize, I inferred your support for Obama from your postings on this board.



    I agree that it's only a matter of time, the federal government will recognize SSM in a matter of years at most.



    SCOTUS has yet to agree. I'll take their legal judgment over yours.
    I support Obama over the republican candidates, if I could choose a real liberal I would be ecstatic too.

    And DOMA is unconstitutional, no where in the Constitution does it say the federal government can define marriage, which is exactly what DOMA does.
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Pressed for time at the moment so am only going to respond to this part: In the original ruling on DOMA, there where a number of references to equal rights not for gay people, but for gender. That is, men could marry some one women could not, and vice versa. Gender discrimination is always strict scrutiny. I am not sure I am swayed by this argument(and I am not giving all the details here), but that is just one way that strict srutiny could be rules to be appropriate. The level of scrutiny used is one of the big questions of this case.
    This isn't gender. It isn't even sexual preference or orientation. It is marriage and the constitutionality of state laws regulating it. With regard to same sex couples, SCOTUS has a precedent of summary dismissal of the question in Baker v. Nelson. You can't get more relaxed scrutiny than that.

    From Smith's opinion:

    According to Proponents, the claims raised here are the same as those rejected in Baker, and the claims are therefore foreclosed by that decision. The majority dispenses with Baker in a footnote. However, other federal courts have indicated that Baker, if it is not controlling, at least stands for exercising "restraint" when it comes to addressing due process and equal protection challenges against laws prohibiting marriage by same-sex couples. . . .

    As Justice Stewart opined in his concurrence in Zablocki v. Redhail, a State may in many circumstances absolutely prohibit [marriage]. Surely, for example, a State may legitimately say that no one can marry his or her sibling, that no one can marry who is not at least 14 years old, that no one can marry without first passing an examination for venereal disease, or that no one can marry who has a living husband or wife.
    Last edited by LuckyDan; 02-07-12 at 11:42 PM.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    I don't assume to understand how exactly the constitution should be interpreted. It's outside of my realm of expertise so I trust our judicial system to interpret and remedy any violations. Personally, I believe in the constiutionality of the Federal Reserve (as our courts have interpreted) so I guess that means I'm not a strict constructionist. Call me naive, liberal, whatever, I don't care.
    I'll call you what you are. Uneducated. Read a book dude. Saying you trust the gov't isn't naive, its just dumb.
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    This isn't gender. It isn't even sexual preference or orientation. It is marriage and the constitutionality of state laws regulating it. With regard to same sex couples, SCOTUS has a precedent of summary dismissal of the question in Baker v. Nelson. You can't get more relaxed scrutiny than that.

    From Smith's opinion:
    Big diff: California was a state in which same sex couples were granted marriage rights and then had them taken away by referendum. That is considerably different than Baker v. Nelson.
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    I'll be the rare conservative on here who doesn't get in line with everyone else. I don't think the gov't should have anything to do with marriage. If two men want to marry, have at it. I don't agree with it and I believe it is a sin. However, I don't want the gov't telling us who can and can't be married. Two gays getting married isn't hurting anyone. They only condemn themselves. Who am I to judge them? I'm not God. I can judge their sin, not them. The slippery slope to go down is should they get adoption rights? My thoughts on gay marriage are based on the precedent that no innocent person is harmed. In stark contrast to abortion, I believe that two homosexuals getting married harms no one. Abortion does harm a person, so I don't agree with it. However, the issue of gay couples adopting children is one I can't decide and is a subect I would like to hear debate on. My gut tells me, no, they shouldn't get them. However, if we allow gays to marry, eventually the right to adopt will be pushed for. So, what say everyone else on this?
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I'll call you what you are. Uneducated. Read a book dude. Saying you trust the gov't isn't naive, its just dumb.
    Really, I'm dumb because I defer constitutional expertise to the Supreme Court? Yes, I'm uneducated on constitutional law relative to Supreme Court justices. I have a healthy distrust of government, but I'm not conspiratorial as you seem to be
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    This should make life easy for santorum. All he has to do is say "vote 4 me or else end up like California" and he'll win the GOP nomination.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I'll be the rare conservative on here who doesn't get in line with everyone else. I don't think the gov't should have anything to do with marriage. If two men want to marry, have at it. I don't agree with it and I believe it is a sin. However, I don't want the gov't telling us who can and can't be married. Two gays getting married isn't hurting anyone. They only condemn themselves. Who am I to judge them? I'm not God. I can judge their sin, not them. The slippery slope to go down is should they get adoption rights? My thoughts on gay marriage are based on the precedent that no innocent person is harmed. In stark contrast to abortion, I believe that two homosexuals getting married harms no one. Abortion does harm a person, so I don't agree with it. However, the issue of gay couples adopting children is one I can't decide and is a subect I would like to hear debate on. My gut tells me, no, they shouldn't get them. However, if we allow gays to marry, eventually the right to adopt will be pushed for. So, what say everyone else on this?
    Your stance on the "government getting out of marriage altogether" actually isn't that rare. A number of posters on this site have suggested it as well, although I think doing away with government's role in marriage just won't be practical.

    The evidence so far suggests that children of homosexual couples are just as well-adjusted as those of heterosexuals (in other words, having same-sex parents has no bearing on how well the child is raised). In fact, the fact that most homosexual couples actually WANT and are usually PREPARED to be parents, unlike many heterosexual couples, is obviously a huge plus.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Big diff: California was a state in which same sex couples were granted marriage rights and then had them taken away by referendum. That is considerably different than Baker v. Nelson.
    And one reason why a SCOTUS ruling here could be limited to CA, and could then further be limited to those marriages that occurred pre-Prop 8.

    Probably not, though. I'm confident that SCOTUS would reverse the 9th and let Prop 8 be enforced.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    although I think doing away with government's role in marriage just won't be practical.
    How so? 123
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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