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Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

It's not a right left thing, it's a generational thing. We will win, no matter what you believe.

Maybe, I hope God destroys the world before that happens.......It just might be the last straw for him. at this point no state that has taken a vote has approved gay marriage...The only way it has been approved is by activist judges and in Iowa the judges that approved it were thrown out of office on their azz. 31 state have constitutional amendments defining marriage as a un ion between a man and a woman. There will be more in November including Washington State where I live. I am hoping we can take the senate and the presidency and get to work on a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. That would be nice before I kick the bucket.
 
Navy and pride lol must ignore obvious homosexual jokes that immediately come to mind.

Is that how you got your 653 posts? adding nothing to the debate except to attack the messenger...........AndI see you don't even have the guts to list your political preferences.........We all know what it is my left wing friend...ROTFLMAO
 
Maybe, I hope God destroys the world before that happens.......It just might be the last straw for him. at this point no state that has taken a vote has approved gay marriage...The only way it has been approved is by activist judges and in Iowa the judges that approved it were thrown out of office on their azz. 31 state have constitutional amendments defining marriage as a un ion between a man and a woman. There will be more in November including Washington State where I live. I am hoping we can take the senate and the presidency and get to work on a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. That would be nice before I kick the bucket.

So what caused the failure of your marriage?
 
Nah, I'm good. I'll rely on news reports stating you can find maps of where to find children. I don't want any trace of NAMBLA on my computer. I am a military man after all. Probably wouldn't look good. lol



Big difference between any old park and say, parks in the inner city where children play unattended. Thats the difference.



I'll answer your question with a question. Do you believe pedophiles have a mental disorder or is it a natural sexual function? Either way, can they deny either one without medication? No. There's your answer.


Nice straw man. I don't see a gun waiting in a bush ready to jump out and make a child pull its trigger with its barrel aimed at their head. If you have seen one of these walking and talking guns that is capable of blending in with human beings, I would like to see it. I may see if the US Marine Corps would like to procure it for use in our fight against terrorism.

Semper Fi my friend, great post, thank you for your service.
 
You can give examples of straight and gay couples raising children where things went bad but when its a straight family its a million to one against a kid going bad...........that is just and undenialable fact...........

Too bad you can't back that 'fact' of yours up with evidence or sources.

You just post nonsense and crap, your own personal fantasies, and think the rest the world reads the same non-exstitant encyclopedia and history book as you.

We don't.
 
If they do, it will only be another few years til the SCOTUS overturns their own previous decision. The only way this argument will end and have no more cases reach the SCOTUS is if same sex marriage is allowed or there is a Constitutional Amendment in place banning same sex marriage. With same sex marriage getting more and more support every day, it is unlikely that there is truly enough support for a Constitutional Amendment against it.


How many states have voted for SSM? How many have it on the ballot in Nov.
 
Too bad you can't back that 'fact' of yours up with evidence or sources.

You just post nonsense and crap, your own personal fantasies, and think the rest the world reads the same non-exstitant encyclopedia and history book as you.

We don't.


Its and undenialable fact of life my left wing friend. There are millions of 2 sex families raising their children the right way. I pity a child who is being raised by 2 men. Imagine the confusion in his life and the embarrasssment when his friends find out........
 
Its and undenialable fact of life my left wing friend. There are millions of 2 sex families raising their children the right way. I pity a child who is being raised by 2 men. Imagine the confusion in his life and the embarrasssment when his friends find out........

See pal, that's not how internet forums work.

You can't just throw out opinions and made-up numbers.

To call something a FACT you need to back it up.

Make an effort to do that or stop wasting thread space with asinine baseless rants.
 
Sorry I totally disagree, some kids never recover from being raised by 2 parents of the same sex. They are embarressed by it. teased abut it. I believe a lot of kids commit suicide because they can never adjust to the idea of same sex parents.......The kids have no clue of their own identity. I think a lesbian woman who has a child should be allowed to keep the child. I believe gay adoption should be a last resort and it only should be allowed to older children in their teens who understand the importance of having parents of the opposite sex.

I know this is a lost cause, but...you can document this bull****, right?
 
Imagine the confusion in his life and the embarrasssment when his friends find out........

It would be nowhere near the confusion and embarrassment a child who was raised by you would feel.

And that sir, is a FACT.
 
I know this is a lost cause, but...you can document this bull****, right?


I can document it by saying most of it is common sense. R U a mother? Are there things you bring to the table in raising your child that a man can not bring? Would they make a better mother then you? I seriously doubt it........I will be waiting for your answer.
 
It would be nowhere near the confusion and embarrassment a child who was raised by you would feel.

And that sir, is a FACT.

Is that all you got? I raised 4 kids, My daughters son who is half Asian is 28 years old and is graduating at Arizona St in May with a PHD in Bio Chemistry. Oh and he has a 4.0 GPA.......That is my genes there.


I don't know how you get away with the personal attacks but I am use to them
 
I totally disagree, at least the kid will know he had a mother and if its a divorce then maybe the mother might even be able to raise him and give him the thing a child needs to grow up. You can give examples of straight and gay couples raising children where things went bad but when its a straight family its a million to one against a kid going bad...........that is just and undenialable fact...........even you as a mother in your heart of hearts knows that there are intangibles that you give to your children that no man could ever give them. You are unique as a mother........I am sorry your liberal views won't allow you to admit that........Maybe someday when your older and wiser.

Your "undeniable fact" is irrelevant NP. As I've posted a score of times over the past 5 years, all research shows that 2 same sex parents rear children just as well as two opposite sex parents. THIS is an undeniable fact. Now, I know you don't post evidence, but every time you say what you do, it comes from a position of personal opinion and bias, not one of fact.
 
Sorry I totally disagree, some kids never recover from being raised by 2 parents of the same sex. They are embarressed by it. teased abut it. I believe a lot of kids commit suicide because they can never adjust to the idea of same sex parents.......The kids have no clue of their own identity. I think a lesbian woman who has a child should be allowed to keep the child. I believe gay adoption should be a last resort and it only should be allowed to older children in their teens who understand the importance of having parents of the opposite sex.

This is all completely absurd and AGAIN, nothing but your own biased opinion. It is inaccurate, irrelevant, and has all been disproved by research and facts. I like you, NP, but when you post such complete misinformation, I'm going to call you on it every time.
 
How many states have voted for SSM? How many have it on the ballot in Nov.

How does something become a Consttitutional Amendment? How much support does a Constitutional Amendment actually have compared to what it needs?

And last I checked, the states are mainly republics. And at least two, if not three now, have made same sex marriage legal via the legislative process, not the courts.
 
I can document it by saying most of it is common sense. R U a mother? Are there things you bring to the table in raising your child that a man can not bring? Would they make a better mother then you? I seriously doubt it........I will be waiting for your answer.

Your "common sense" fails NP. Research shows otherwise.
 
Here are two links, one on legitimate state interest -- State Interest -- and its rational basis test -- Rational Basis Test.

The federal appeals court, when deciding constitutionality of a state statute, judges to determine if the state has a legitimate state interest in the matter, employing the rational basis test to aid in determination.

CA's Prop 8 was passed by the voters to amend the state Constitution. Such amending, affecting state statutes, can indeed be brought about by legislative action or ballot initiative in CA.

Reading these two links, it would seem on the surface that overturn on appeal all the way through the SCOTUS would be a slamdunk. There doesn't seem to be any rational reason why the state has a legitimate reason to deny the equal protection guaranteed by the 14th Amendment to committed gay couples that would accrue to them from marriage.

However, legitimate state interest is not the first criteria to be applied in such matters; it is the second.

The first criteria is reasonable and customary subject applicablity. The reasonable and customary subject applicability test is used in law, science, etc., many disciplines, to determine if the matter at hand makes sense to examine further. This test keeps the court from wasting time on subsequent complex analysis that can occur deciding legitimate state interest when doing so would be substantively absurd.

In Brown v. Board the question first posed is whether it is reasonable and customary that the subject of both White and Black children were applicable to school attendance.

In Brown v. Board, it was thus first judged reasonable and customary from a subject applicability perspective that both White and Black kids attend school, in a classroom, with teachers, etc. Thus the matter qualified for the subsequent legitimate state interest test .. and it was found that the state did not have a legitimate state interest in witholding equal financial schooling support for Black kids that segregation caused. Thus, segregation was ended in the name of equal protection under the 14th Amendment, so that Black kids could have equal access to adequately funded and thereby quality schools.

But in the Prop 8 matter, the court in dealing with the reasonable and customary subject applicability matter must test if "a man and a woman as husband and wife" applies to the word marriage (like "do White kids attend school" in the Brown v. Board case), and thus, conversely, if any other relationship applies to the word marriage (like "do Black kids attend school" in the Brown v. Board case).

In the Brown v. Board case, the answer to both questions was yes, both White and Black kids attend school. Thus the case qualified to be further examined to see if the associated statutes needed to be overturned.

But in the Prop 8 case, the word marriage, by definition, simply does not apply to anyone other than "a man and a woman as husband and wife".

Thus because it fails the reasonable and customary subject applicability test, the case is to be rightly dropped at this point, and no further review for unconstitutionality is warranted.

Indeed, the Prop 8 matter is analagous to saying "a dog is {accurate description of a dog}". Then when challenged that the correct description of dog will unconstitutionally exclude cats for the purpose of letting cats participate in dog shows, the first test is whether the definition of dog is accurate and if anything other than that description is a dog. If the first test succeeds and the second test fails, then the challenge is aborted, as further analysis is irrelevant.

The legitimate state interest test is only applied if the issue at hand rationally warrants it as first determined by the reasonable and customary subject applicability test. In the Brown v. Board case it did; in the Prop 8 and dog-cat matters, it obviously doesn't.

Indeed, it would be absurd to argue legitimate state interest in letting cat owners enter their cats in dog shows, as cats aren't dogs. Such analysis would be an absurd waste of time.

And, likewise, it would be absurd to argue legitimate state interest in letting "a man and a man" or "a woman and a woman"get married, as neither are "a man and a woman", the only qualifiers for marriage.

That is why, sometime in the late 1960s/early 1970s, gay leaders began bombarding the media with oxymoronic (and thus intrinsically false) phrases like "SSM", "same sex marriage", "gay marriage", and the like. The purpose of doing so was to effect a form of mind-control such that after a couple of generations a greater segment of the population would not only be more comfortable hearing these oxymoronic statements, but that a sufficient number of people would actually erroneously think that "marriage" means other than in addition to "a man and a woman as husband and wife".

Though marriage never has and still doesn't, by definition, mean other than "a man and a woman as husband and wife", what's relevant now is whether the judges deciding Prop 8 and similar cases have been sufficiently, in effect, brainwashed into falsely thinking otherwise.

If so, they will erroneously state that Prop 8 passes the reasonable and customary subject applicability test, and then an essentially absurd legitimate state interest test will most likely irrationally overturn Prop 8.
 
This is all completely absurd and AGAIN, nothing but your own biased opinion. It is inaccurate, irrelevant, and has all been disproved by research and facts. I like you, NP, but when you post such complete misinformation, I'm going to call you on it every time.

I ask you CC did your mother bring anything to the table that a gay man could not bring and I am not talking about a gay man pretending to be a mother.
 
Your "common sense" fails NP. Research shows otherwise.

Yeah bias research. Your dodging the question Redress. Do you as a mother bring anything to the table raising a child that a gay man can not bring?
 
Here are two links, one on legitimate state interest -- State Interest -- and its rational basis test -- Rational Basis Test.

The federal appeals court, when deciding constitutionality of a state statute, judges to determine if the state has a legitimate state interest in the matter, employing the rational basis test to aid in determination.

CA's Prop 8 was passed by the voters to amend the state Constitution. Such amending, affecting state statutes, can indeed be brought about by legislative action or ballot initiative in CA.

Reading these two links, it would seem on the surface that overturn on appeal all the way through the SCOTUS would be a slamdunk. There doesn't seem to be any rational reason why the state has a legitimate reason to deny the equal protection guaranteed by the 14th Amendment to committed gay couples that would accrue to them from marriage.

However, legitimate state interest is not the first criteria to be applied in such matters; it is the second.

The first criteria is reasonable and customary subject applicablity. The reasonable and customary subject applicability test is used in law, science, etc., many disciplines, to determine if the matter at hand makes sense to examine further. This test keeps the court from wasting time on subsequent complex analysis that can occur deciding legitimate state interest when doing so would be substantively absurd.

In Brown v. Board the question first posed is whether it is reasonable and customary that the subject of both White and Black children were applicable to school attendance.

In Brown v. Board, it was thus first judged reasonable and customary from a subject applicability perspective that both White and Black kids attend school, in a classroom, with teachers, etc. Thus the matter qualified for the subsequent legitimate state interest test .. and it was found that the state did not have a legitimate state interest in witholding equal financial schooling support for Black kids that segregation caused. Thus, segregation was ended in the name of equal protection under the 14th Amendment, so that Black kids could have equal access to adequately funded and thereby quality schools.

But in the Prop 8 matter, the court in dealing with the reasonable and customary subject applicability matter must test if "a man and a woman as husband and wife" applies to the word marriage (like "do White kids attend school" in the Brown v. Board case), and thus, conversely, if any other relationship applies to the word marriage (like "do Black kids attend school" in the Brown v. Board case).

In the Brown v. Board case, the answer to both questions was yes, both White and Black kids attend school. Thus the case qualified to be further examined to see if the associated statutes needed to be overturned.

But in the Prop 8 case, the word marriage, by definition, simply does not apply to anyone other than "a man and a woman as husband and wife".

Thus because it fails the reasonable and customary subject applicability test, the case is to be rightly dropped at this point, and no further review for unconstitutionality is warranted.

Indeed, the Prop 8 matter is analagous to saying "a dog is {accurate description of a dog}". Then when challenged that the correct description of dog will unconstitutionally exclude cats for the purpose of letting cats participate in dog shows, the first test is whether the definition of dog is accurate and if anything other than that description is a dog. If the first test succeeds and the second test fails, then the challenge is aborted, as further analysis is irrelevant.

The legitimate state interest test is only applied if the issue at hand rationally warrants it as first determined by the reasonable and customary subject applicability test. In the Brown v. Board case it did; in the Prop 8 and dog-cat matters, it obviously doesn't.

Indeed, it would be absurd to argue legitimate state interest in letting cat owners enter their cats in dog shows, as cats aren't dogs. Such analysis would be an absurd waste of time.

And, likewise, it would be absurd to argue legitimate state interest in letting "a man and a man" or "a woman and a woman"get married, as neither are "a man and a woman", the only qualifiers for marriage.

That is why, sometime in the late 1960s/early 1970s, gay leaders began bombarding the media with oxymoronic (and thus intrinsically false) phrases like "SSM", "same sex marriage", "gay marriage", and the like. The purpose of doing so was to effect a form of mind-control such that after a couple of generations a greater segment of the population would not only be more comfortable hearing these oxymoronic statements, but that a sufficient number of people would actually erroneously think that "marriage" means other than in addition to "a man and a woman as husband and wife".

Though marriage never has and still doesn't, by definition, mean other than "a man and a woman as husband and wife", what's relevant now is whether the judges deciding Prop 8 and similar cases have been sufficiently, in effect, brainwashed into falsely thinking otherwise.

If so, they will erroneously state that Prop 8 passes the reasonable and customary subject applicability test, and then an essentially absurd legitimate state interest test will most likely irrationally overturn Prop 8.

simple question, who's definition of marriage are YOU using? and whos definition will the courts use?

I think you erroneously think your OPINION of that definition is the only/right one. :shrug:
 
I ask you CC did your mother bring anything to the table that a gay man could not bring and I am not talking about a gay man pretending to be a mother.


ask me, the answer is no she didnt. My mom is an awesome caring kind loving person and Id be less without her but none of those qualities are dependent on her being a women. They depend on her heart, mind and love for me :shrug:

Sorry time and time again it has been proven that a child does equally well with any two caring loving guardians. This fact doesn't need your acceptance because it will still be a fact with or without it.
 
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