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Thread: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

  1. #101
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    A Constitutional Amendment that states constitutional protections don't apply to homosexuals?
    I have no idea what the idea will entail. I imagine that whichever sides loses, an amendment will be attempted.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    With regard to marriage, what precedents are there to support that? States have been allowed to regulate marriage for, oh God, years now.
    They were also allowed to regulate inter-racial marriage until it was deemed unconstitutional. So what's your point?
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    They were also allowed to regulate inter-racial marriage until it was deemed unconstitutional. So what's your point?
    You answer a question not asked. Let me repeat it:

    With regard to marriage, what precedents are there to support the statement, "The constitution guarantees equal rights under the law. When one group of people are denied their rights on the basis of sexual preference, that's unconstitutional."

    The miscegenation comparison gets a lot of likes at DP. Not sure how high it will fly with the Supremes.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I have no idea what the idea will entail. I imagine that whichever sides loses, an amendment will be attempted.
    Not necessarily. Even if the Supremes uphold the 9th, it might only apply to California, since the only question decided was that once a designation of marriage has been granted, it cannot be taken away. It depends on how limited the ruling is.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    With regard to marriage, what precedents are there to support the statement, "The constitution guarantees equal rights under the law. When one group of people are denied their rights on the basis of sexual preference, that's unconstitutional."
    Romer v. Evans
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with this, as mentioned above, is that when DOMA goes away, there will still be no federal benefits for civil unions, nor a large likelyhood of identical benefits being established. Even if you do establish identical benefits, then you have a situation where the only difference is in name, which makes two sets of identical laws kinda stupid.
    You say "when" DOMA goes away. That's not altogether certain. Regardless, if must first go away for remaining dominos to fall. You mentioned 5 years in a previous post. A lot can happen in five years .. and it may take longer considering it was passed by a huge margin in both the House and Senate. Anticipation may be personally specific, not at all manifestly guaranteed.

    If there are currently no federal benefits for civil unions, Prop 8 supporters are asking why can't there be -- why is it unlikely that identical legal benefits be established. I'm sure they know full well that without such legal protections being made at all levels of law for civil unions, they are likely to lose their approach. Getting equal protection applied to civil unions is pivotal for Prop 8 supporters.

    It seems the Prop 8 suggested approach was to secure what has long been their traditional definition of the name of the cultural institution that is greatly valuable to them as they perceive it ..

    .. And then the mandate will be there to correct all level of law to support equal protection for civil union couples.

    The Prop 8 supporters do not think that would at all be stupid to have equal protection under the law for both marriages and civil unions.

    What they find egregious is to have the cultural institution that has long been meaningful to them as defined to be redefined to mean something else shorn of its meaning.

    We may not all agree with them, but their point of nomenclature is valid and significant.

    They don't mind that cat owners have cat shows with the same rules for entry and contest. What the Prop 8 dog show people are objecting to is being forced to let cat owners enter cats in their dog shows .. as those events are then no longer dog shows, about which they are most certainly accurately aware.

    Naming something to reflect what it truly is a foundational way of truly understanding what that entity means -- between a man and a woman as husband and wife -- which they see as what marriage has long been, both to them, and to our long-established culture.
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post

    That's really what it will come down to, or should. The level of scrutiny. Why do you or the legal scholars you refer to feel that it will be anything more than a rational basis? What precedent is there for it? For marriage laws like Prop 8 or gay rights in general?
    Pressed for time at the moment so am only going to respond to this part: In the original ruling on DOMA, there where a number of references to equal rights not for gay people, but for gender. That is, men could marry some one women could not, and vice versa. Gender discrimination is always strict scrutiny. I am not sure I am swayed by this argument(and I am not giving all the details here), but that is just one way that strict srutiny could be rules to be appropriate. The level of scrutiny used is one of the big questions of this case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually I do not hope that since I hope that SCOTUS was affirm a broader ruling against all SSM bans.
    We should make a friendly bet on that..............I say prop 8 will be held up by a 5-4 count with Kennedy casting the deciding vote.........Your only chance is if a conservative judge leaves the court and is replaced by a lib.......Problem is the next judge to go will be Ginsberg. She will either die since she has cancer or retire..........Perfect situation for me is a Conservative gets elected Prez and appoints another Roberts.......Your side would definitely be in deep Kimchee then. If Obama wins then he will just replace her with another lib.....nothing changes
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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    You say "when" DOMA goes away. That's not altogether certain. Regardless, if must first go away for remaining dominos to fall. You mentioned 5 years in a previous post. A lot can happen in five years .. and it may take longer considering it was passed by a huge margin in both the House and Senate. Anticipation may be personally specific, not at all manifestly guaranteed.
    I can come back and respond to more if your post if you need later(probably tomorrow), but as to this: DOMA is hard to support from a legal standpoint. Historically states have been the ones to decide who they marry, and states rights arguments play very stromngly with conservative judges.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    We should make a friendly bet on that..............I say prop 8 will be held up by a 5-4 count with Kennedy casting the deciding vote.........Your only chance is if a conservative judge leaves the court and is replaced by a lib.......Problem is the next judge to go will be Ginsberg. She will either die since she has cancer or retire..........Perfect situation for me is a Conservative gets elected Prez and appoints another Roberts.......Your side would definitely be in deep Kimchee then. If Obama wins then he will just replace her with another lib.....nothing changes
    I know you won't believe this but there are plenty of conservative arguments for SSM.
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