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Thread: Komen Reverses Decision On Funding PP

  1. #21
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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Well, not really. What makes them so unique? No one else at all does this? And besides, an interest in "women's health" requires you to fund EVERY POSSIBLE ASPECT of it, else you're putting politics before health?

    Is that a slope you want to be on?
    Planned Parenthood is one of the largest organizations in the country that low income women have access to go for breast exams. That's a unique spot. Having one of the largest sponsors of breast health awareness cut funding to them is stupid. And I'm not on a slope - cutting funding to their entire organization cuts funding to a place with high access to low income women.

    OK, you need considerably more than that.
    Understanding the access PP has to low income women is not putting politics before health, it's the exact opposite.

    Sure. But merely "voicing disapproval" and "stopping donations" is hardly what happened here. Never mind that the tantrum came from all sorts of people that appear not to be SGK supporters in the first place, or at least there's nothing to indicate that they are.
    When something big happens, "merely voicing disapproval and stopping donations" is rarely what happens, but that sums up what happened and I would hardly call most people's actions tantrums. I don't approve of threats or hyperbolic responses, but I have no problem with people expressing their anger and frustration in appropriate ways.

    Besides, there's research which suggests that having an abortion can increase the risk of breast cancer. Seems to me that would be an unassailable reason that SGK wouldn't want to fund it. In that instance, who would be putting the politics before the health?
    That research is nonsense.

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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Planned Parenthood is one of the largest organizations in the country that low income women have access to go for breast exams. That's a unique spot.
    Except they don't do any. They refer women to other clinics.

    From SGK:

    "We have decided not to fund, wherever possible, pass-through grants. We were giving them money, they were sending women out for mammograms. What we would like to have are clinics where we can directly fund mammograms."

    Passing the money through PP means PP gets a cut and less money goes to the clinics which actually do the mammograms.

    I'm certain you will disagree, but it certainly seems to me that on your own terms, insisting that the grant pass through PP, PP taking its cut, and less money going to the actual provider, is indeed politics before health. For the purposes you state, there's no reason PP needs the grant, and giving them a chunk actually means less spending on the actual "health."


    Understanding the access PP has to low income women is not putting politics before health, it's the exact opposite.
    Only if you insist that "health" means exactly the specific things you choose, and not other things they could decide to do with the money.



    When something big happens, "merely voicing disapproval and stopping donations" is rarely what happens, but that sums up what happened and I would hardly call most people's actions tantrums. I don't approve of threats or hyperbolic responses, but I have no problem with people expressing their anger and frustration in appropriate ways.
    When the hyperbole comprises the bulk of the response, then it's not quite as you describe.

    That research is nonsense.
    Because you so say. OK.
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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Reuters:


    This is good news and it shows the power that ordinary people can have in influencing the decisions of large institutions.
    Is it ordinary people or is it the kind of people who use twitter a lot and have blogs? You often find this kind of people being called 'the people' or 'the community' lately, when common sense would suggest they are hardly representative.

    Anyway, there is now no excuse for a pro-lifer to donate to this organisation.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Except they don't do any. They refer women to other clinics.

    From SGK:

    "We have decided not to fund, wherever possible, pass-through grants. We were giving them money, they were sending women out for mammograms. What we would like to have are clinics where we can directly fund mammograms."
    They don't do mammograms, you're right, they do breast exams which is what I said.

    Passing the money through PP means PP gets a cut and less money goes to the clinics which actually do the mammograms.
    Did Komen say that they were going to give the money to clinics that do mammograms? And if they did, do those clinics have the same wide reaching access to low income women?

    I'm certain you will disagree, but it certainly seems to me that on your own terms, insisting that the grant pass through PP, PP taking its cut, and less money going to the actual provider, is indeed politics before health. For the purposes you state, there's no reason PP needs the grant, and giving them a chunk actually means less spending on the actual "health."
    No, it's understanding that PP has a certain level of access to low income women.

    Only if you insist that "health" means exactly the specific things you choose, and not other things they could decide to do with the money.
    No, putting politics before access to low income women for breast exams is a big deal.

    When the hyperbole comprises the bulk of the response, then it's not quite as you describe.
    I don't think hyperbole comprises the bulk of the response. I think that's your skewed perception. In fact, I think you're being hyperbolic about how much hyperbole was actually involved.

    Because you so say. OK.
    No, because it actually is nonsense. Ask the American Cancer Society. In fact, they say that full term pregnancy increases ones risk for breast cancer for a short term, so it's actually the exact opposite of what you claim.

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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, putting politics before access to low income women for breast exams is a big deal.
    This is just begging the question isn't it. You would not say it was just politics if you actually believed killing fetuses was the same as killing an adult or post-natal child. It is just politics to you because a fetus is not a person to you. Hence you are just assuming something that is in dispute between you and pro-lifers.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 02-03-12 at 08:27 PM.
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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    They don't do mammograms, you're right, they do breast exams which is what I said.


    Did Komen say that they were going to give the money to clinics that do mammograms? And if they did, do those clinics have the same wide reaching access to low income women?
    Yes, and considering these are the clinics to which PP refers women, yes.


    No, it's understanding that PP has a certain level of access to low income women.


    No, putting politics before access to low income women for breast exams is a big deal.
    See, we're getting to the point where all you're really saying is "because I said so."



    In fact, I think you're being hyperbolic about how much hyperbole was actually involved.
    Frustrated? You're starting to act like a child. I have given comparatively lengthy responses to everything, detailing my reasoning. All you're really doing in return is saying "no. Yes. It just is." So, if anyone needs the lecture, it's you.


    No, because it actually is nonsense. Ask the American Cancer Society. In fact, they say that full term pregnancy increases ones risk for breast cancer for a short term, so it's actually the exact opposite of what you claim.
    Well, no; it says results of studies have varied.

    Look, I don't even care; I wasn't even asserting it for its own sake. It's about the bogusness of this being health issue. If it DID increase the risk, and SGK pulled its funding on its basis, the outcry would have been the same. I think any honest observer would agree.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    This is just begging the question isn't. You would not say it was just politics if you actually believed killing fetuses was the same as killing an adult or post-natal child. It is just politics to you because a fetus is not a person to you. Hence you are just assuming something that is in dispute between you and pro-lifers.
    If I were pro-life, I probably wouldn't see it as just politics, you're right. However, I'm sure that I would be willing to sacrifice the access PP has to low income for my position.

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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    If I were pro-life, I probably wouldn't see it as just politics, you're right. However, I'm sure that I would be willing to sacrifice the access PP has to low income for my position.
    If PP also provided nursing homes where they murdered the patients would you still not be willing to sacrifice this access to low income people? For the consistent pro-lifer there isn't that much difference.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Komen reverses move to cut Planned Parenthood funding

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    If I were pro-life, I probably wouldn't see it as just politics, you're right. However, I'm sure that I would be willing to sacrifice the access PP has to low income for my position.
    Yes, and this "low income" meme you keep pushing is your political bent. It is not required that anyone fund "low income" anything in order to be pro-health.

    Look, all you're doing is what I said -- insisting that PP is entitled to SGK's donations. You say you aren't, but you do it in every post.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Komen Reverses Decision On Funding PP

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