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Thread: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

  1. #971
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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, i believe healthcare is 100% personal responsibility. if the state residents want to support a universal healthcare program in their state then that is within their rights, no such rights exist for a one size fits all Federal Program
    better stay on topic con, your boy j-mac is getting a bit pissy....lol

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    better stay on topic con, your boy j-mac is getting a bit pissy....lol
    Better be careful randal or he’ll hurl a bunch of random numbers at ya.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  3. #973
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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Not true. If ERs were not forced to accept patients regardless of their ability to pay (thanks to a law signed by Reagan), they would not accept patients who couldn't pay. That's why Reagan signed the bill into law.
    That damn Reagan. (seriously.)

    The HCAA does not require people who can't afford insurance to buy insurance. It requires people to pay according to their ability to pay.
    It requires people to purchase a service from a private company that they might not want, or that might not be a good deal. Where's an incentive for insurance cost containment if no one is allowed to refuse the purchase? An individual mandate makes these companies a de facto arm of government, makes the premiums a de facto tax, and therefore gives the private companies the ability to levy the tax. How will this bring health care prices down? Insurance companies will now reimburse MORE care, expanding access, and therefore expanding cost, and pumping premiums higher to cover those. It throws fuel on the fire. It makes our REAL problem (cost) worse by supposedly alleviating our FAKE problem (access/universal coverage).

    That's a weak dodge. What about people who could be treated successfully if they had insurance? Should they be put on the street to die if they can't afford to pay?
    It's not a weak dodge. In ANY insurance system there has to be rationing, and costs rise when there isn't enough rationing. When it comes to rationing, you have to start at the most wasteful, which is end-of-life hospital care. People who are going to die anyway don't need blank checks from the pool of policyholders or taxpayers to be keeping their bodies operational delaying the inevitable. That's just one example of it technically being a good thing if more people went home to die instead of drained other people's dollars on their way out. Most liberals even start to acknowledge this when they start looking into Medicare unsustainability and the number of dollars wasted artificially keeping dead and dying people alive.

    People who could be treated successfully with insurance should receive the treatment if that treatment is covered by the insurance, or should have the choice to pay for it if it's not covered, or just not receive it if they can neither pay for it nor is it covered. But as I said above, there have to be limits. There has to be a cost-containment strategy that leaves some people S.O.L. No matter what the system, you have to ration hard.

    Unless you do away with all government-involved health programs and return to a cash-only system. That too leaves a lot of people S.O.L., but when you stop PAYING FOR things that are overpriced, the prices necessarily start to come down. And that's what we need most of all: for actual health care service prices to come down within people's ability to just purchase them.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 02-12-12 at 03:26 PM.

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Talk about extreme? That makes no sense, no one is talking about doing away with the funding for the govt, just reducing the spending.
    Why? Why are you against letting people keep more of their money all of a sudden?

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Equally?


    j-mac
    No, some share more than others.

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    False choice. *buzzer* fallacy. Try again.


    j-mac
    What false choice? Conservative is saying that the government shouldn't be paying for peoples' healthcare, but they are do, and as Adam pointed out, they have since Reagan made that the law in 1986. So where's his outrage at Reagan?

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post

    Your graphs show Bush debt from 2001 - 2009. I am talking about the debt that has accumulated since 2009 when Obama took office.
    The chart shows you the cost of Obama's policies for 2009-2017 ... $983 billion.

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    The chart shows you the cost of Obama's policies for 2009-2017 ... $983 billion.
    So, what you are saying is that Obama is only accountable for about $100 billion per year in deficit spending. But his own budget is projecting trillion dollar annual deficits. Where is the rest of the spending coming from?

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, i believe healthcare is 100% personal responsibility. if the state residents want to support a universal healthcare program in their state then that is within their rights, no such rights exist for a one size fits all Federal Program
    But you support Reagan federally funding emergency room care??

    Hypocrite much?

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    Re: US economy creates 243,000 jobs in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    So, what you are saying is that Obama is only accountable for about $100 billion per year in deficit spending. But his own budget is projecting trillion dollar annual deficits. Where is the rest of the spending coming from?
    Most of the budget lies in non-discretionary items. The chart I posted shows the impact of Obama's policies on the debt.

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