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Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: http:

jamesrage

jamesrage

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I hope they are successful.

Family Of Murdered Border Patrol Agent Files $25M Claim Against ATF | Fox News
The family of murdered Border Patrol agent Brian Terry has filed a $25 million wrongful death claim against the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives claiming Terry was killed with AK-47s that were knowingly sold under the Fast and Furious gunrunning probe to a straw purchaser for drug cartels.
In a 65-page complaint, served on the government on Wednesday, attorneys for the family claim ATF "wrongdoing" in Operation Fast and Furious.
“ATF's failures were not only negligent but in violation of ATF's own policies and procedures," the complaint claims.

The family has also filed a claim against the Lone Wolf Trading Company seeking unspecified damages for negligence in selling the weapons to the purchaser and aiding and abetting in Mexican drug cartels’ conduct.
The claim says Lone Wolf knowingly sold "hundreds of weapons" to various straw purchasers and in turn realized "hundreds of thousands of dollars in profits from these sales."
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

I would prefer a criminal as opposed a civil conviction but I wish them success.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

I have a feeling the lawsuite won't get any traction. Sad but true.
 
Sparky said:
I have a feeling the lawsuite won't get any traction. Sad but true.
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They don't deserve 25 million that's for sure. Losing a loved one isn't winning the lottery.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

kenvin said:
They don't deserve 25 million that's for sure. Losing a loved one isn't winning the lottery.
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And then there's the little matter of soveriegn immunity
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

kenvin said:
They don't deserve 25 million that's for sure. Losing a loved one isn't winning the lottery.
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But I'm sure the grieving family would gladly trade having Brian Terry alive and well over 25 million.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Im sorry if this sounds rash. But im glad the number is high. The more attention to this the better.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Sovereign immunity is wide, but not absolute. If the defendant was violating someone's civil rights (that's a given, I think) and acting outside the scope of his duties, he's vulnerable. This will take some damned fine lawyering, but I wish them all the luck in the world.

Too bad they couldn't have sued under RICO.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

They are fighting the entire US government... and I hope to hell they win. There has to be a boundary beyond which even government-sanctioned corruption cannot go without consequence.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

jamesrage said:
I hope they are successful. [...]
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If a U.S. gun had not killed Terry, another one would have. There are therefore no guilty parties on the U.S. side of the border, which makes any desire for 'punishment' on the U.S. side of the border rather irrational.

And on that note of irrationality, does anyone know or care what happened to the man that actually killed Agent Terry? Or is the source of the weapon the only concern?
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Karl said:
If a U.S. gun had not killed Terry, another one would have. There are therefore no guilty parties on the U.S. side of the border, which makes any desire for 'punishment' on the U.S. side of the border rather irrational.

And on that note of irrationality, does anyone know or care what happened to the man that actually killed Agent Terry? Or is the source of the weapon the only concern?
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^^^^^^^ Tigger's yang.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

1Perry said:
^^^^^^^ Tigger's yang.
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I've heard that you shouldn't pull on a tiger's tail... go for the yang at your own risk :shock:
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Karl said:
If a U.S. gun had not killed Terry, another one would have. There are therefore no guilty parties on the U.S. side of the border, which makes any desire for 'punishment' on the U.S. side of the border rather irrational.

And on that note of irrationality, does anyone know or care what happened to the man that actually killed Agent Terry? Or is the source of the weapon the only concern?
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Sorry, but im going to flat out ask you.

Are you an actor portraying a neferious yet inquisative role?
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Karl said:
If a U.S. gun had not killed Terry, another one would have.
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You don't know that for sure.


There are therefore no guilty parties on the U.S. side of the border, which makes any desire for 'punishment' on the U.S. side of the border rather irrational.
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The government literally gave the guns to the thugs that killed the border agent.The idiots who thought it was a smart idea to give firearms to people we have no jurisdiction over should be punished.

And on that note of irrationality, does anyone know or care what happened to the man that actually killed Agent Terry? Or is the source of the weapon the only concern?
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The scumbags who murdered the border agent should get the death penalty.
 
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Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

dirtpoorchris said:
Sorry, but im going to flat out ask you.

Are you an actor portraying a neferious yet inquisative role?
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Your main concern should be, am I impersonating a grammarian? ;)
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

jamesrage said:
[1] You don't know that for sure.

[2a] The government literally gave the guns to the thugs that killed the border agent. [2b] The idiots who thought it was a smart idea to give firearms to people we have no jurisdiction over should be punished.

[3] The scumbags who murdered the border agent should get the death penalty.
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1. True, but it is a practically certain assumption.

2a. That is far from a practically certain assumption.

2b. I would tend to agree.

3. I would tend to agree.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Karl said:
1. True, but it is a practically certain assumption.

2a. That is far from a practically certain assumption.
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Are you implying the government did not give these thugs weapons?
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

1Perry said:
I would prefer a criminal as opposed a civil conviction but I wish them success.
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Criminally negligent manslaughter

Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim.

Manslaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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While the operation was carried out to catch drug dealers from a murderous cartel, it should have been HALTED immediately as soon as they started losing track of the guns. It's the failure to foresee the consequences of continuing to supply assault rifles to known killers after losing track of them that constitutes the "wanton disregard for human life".
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Pinkie said:
Sovereign immunity is wide, but not absolute. If the defendant was violating someone's civil rights (that's a given, I think) and acting outside the scope of his duties, he's vulnerable. This will take some damned fine lawyering, but I wish them all the luck in the world.

Too bad they couldn't have sued under RICO.
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No, it's not a "given"

Not even close

This is just another wingnut lawsuit
 
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Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

jamesrage said:
Are you implying the government did not give these thugs weapons?
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Umm, the govt did not give them weapons. They merely did not prevent them from procuring the guns
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Do the families of those killed with legally/illegally purchased guns get to sue the dealer, gun manufacturer or murderer? What about war? Do the families of soldiers get to sue the government if they get killed? This was a government operation that went horribly wrong. The border patrol agent was killed doing his job. It's an occupational hazard. The family is now trying to cash in on the matter with what is a clearly frivolous lawsuit.
 
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Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Good GAWD! What world do liberals come from?


j-mac
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

j-mac said:
Good GAWD! What world do liberals come from?


j-mac
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The real world

What mental institution did the wingnuts escape from?
 
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Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

sangha said:
The real world
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As long as you believe so, then I guess in your own mind that would be the truth eh?


j-mac
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Hatuey said:
Do the families of those killed with legally/illegally purchased guns get to sue the dealer, gun manufacturer or murderer? What about war? Do the families of soldiers get to sue the government if they get killed? This was a government operation that went horribly wrong. The border patrol agent was killed doing his job. It's an occupational hazard. The family is now trying to cash in on the matter with what is a clearly frivolous lawsuit.
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If that dealer illegally sold the guns, yes, I imagine they can be sued. If they knowingly sold to members of a criminal organization, yes I imagine one could sue.
 
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