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Thread: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

  1. #261
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And spend the money instead on police and new prisons to take care of the poor that would then be willing to slice your throat for a loaf of bread? That would be short-sighted to the extreme, now wouldn't it?
    This always cracks me up. Conservatives are always accused of hating the poor, and yet look who assumes that, were it not for welfare, they'd all start slitting throats.

    Unlike you and the other lefties, I think many of the poor can find other ways to meet their needs than resorting to bloodshed. I don't see the poorer folks in our society as potential monsters we have to keep fed to prevent them from becoming violent.

    It seemed to be just fine with conservatives when they redistributed the wealth from the working class to the wealthy over the last 30 years.
    You can't blame that on conservatives. We all contribute to that trend. How much money does the CEO of the company that makes the computer you're typing on have, would you guess?

    And its imperative if we are to revive our economy because a consumer economy, as we can plainly see, can't prosper when most of the wealth is at the top, out of reach of consumers.
    Everyone who has any money at all consumes. We're all consumers. Some of us have more money to use on consumption than others.

    At this point, our greatest barrier to prosperity is national debt and the currency problems that will follow. The fact that not everyone who has a job has your notion of a "fair" amount of compensation is unimportant by comparison.

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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    No response to my post Catawba? Maybe you just missed it. or maybe its hard to come up with a good emotional liberal arguement when faced with the facts.
    Yes I guess I did miss it in the flurry of earlier posts. Sorry.

    Originally Posted by SgtRock
    Is it possible for corporations to be profitable and provide what you consider a living wage? That depends on what the standard of living is for employees.
    Yes, it is, a living wage is only a couple more bucks an hour than minimum wage. Given the 400% increase in CEO salaries, it should be no problem to increase labor cost slightly, just as they have done with minimum wage increases in the past.


    You also have to remember that America does not exist in a vacuum. We have to compete with the rest of the world. As employees in other countries wages and standard of living increase ours are decreasing.
    We compete by out educating them, out innovating them, like we used to do in the past. If you were planning on competing by making our workforce as undereducated and housing people in dormitories and feeding them a biscuit and a cup of tea for a 12 hour day, it aint't happening while CEO's and company owners get rich. You may as well go live over there if that is your plan.


    The middle class is vanishing in America. What can be done to reverse this.

    By reversing the things that brought it about - the flattening of our progressive tax system over the last year which included providing tax breaks for jobs overseas, catching minimum wage up to inflation so we have a stronger consumer base to create demand, and by reregulating the banks so we don't have another financial meltdown that takes trillions of taxpayer dollars and years to correct.

    As it stands now America has the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world only behind Japan. Tax rates around the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. If I start a company in America I pay a corporate tax rate of 38%. Then if I choose to invest my profits I pay an additional 15% capital gains tax on top of the corporate tax. I can also pay state corporate taxes as high as 12% depending on where I start my business. How can I compete with someone who starts a business in a country where corporate taxes are less than 20%? The current administration wants to increase taxes on corporations. This will effectivly drive another nail in the coffin of the middle class.
    "Corporate income-tax receipts typically fall during recessions, and they declined sharply after the 2008 financial crisis, which wiped out big swaths of profits across the huge financial sector. But U.S. profits have rebounded sharply in recent quarters, while tax receipts have stayed low.

    So where is the money? There are a lot of moving pieces, budget watchers say, but one view shared inside Washington is that a temporary tax break—supported by both political parties—is a key reason.

    This tax break, known as "bonus depreciation," has allowed companies to write off investments in goods like industrial equipment, manufacturing machinery and computers in the year in which they're bought rather than over time. The White House estimates the subsidy has saved companies roughly $55 billion in corporate income taxes over each of the past two years.

    Companies just reporting fourth-quarter earnings made clear they have aggressively taken advantage of the tax break, which lasted in full through December."
    Tax Break Pushes Corporate Taxes to Just 12.1% of Profits, Lowest Level in 40 Years - WSJ.com

    I haven't heard of any plans to raise the corporate taxes, except for the big oil subsidies have you?
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What I had asked for, and have been waiting for, is your proof that shows national unemployment tracking each increase in minimum wage.
    What you got was the effect of a living wage in 100 cities vs cities that failed to enact a living wage, showing a loss of employment opportunities among the lowest of the economic scale. That's proof enough that raising min wage is ultimately detrimental. That you fail to admit this shows your utter dishonesty.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    I am sorta ok with this... but there will be that percentage of people getting public assistance sitting around in parks homeless drinking booze and..... oh wait, never mind, already happening....

    personally I feel that if you rely on others to feed or shelter you, they get to dictate what that is. Perhaps the greatest incentive of all is that it is just barely enough, and to move up the social economic ladder would be to profvde for oneself to make for a better life... I guess however one must have pride in order to feel the desire to move up....
    Re-enforcing control and paternalism will only reduce incentives to become more financially independent.
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    This always cracks me up. Conservatives are always accused of hating the poor, and yet look who assumes that, were it not for welfare, they'd all start slitting throats.
    If you push people too far, they fight back. The point is, you can only push people so far, and the working class has never been pushed harder since the Great Depression. That is going to be the big surprise in November for those that are so out of touch with how bad things are for people.


    You can't blame that on conservatives. We all contribute to that trend. How much money does the CEO of the company that makes the computer you're typing on have, would you guess?
    Supply side economics and deregulation are the hallmarks of the conservative party for the last 30 years. Hell your candidates are still proposing the same failed **** we've put up with for the last 3o years!



    Everyone who has any money at all consumes. We're all consumers. Some of us have more money to use on consumption than others.
    If that were the case, since we have record wealth at the top we should have record demand of production, right? 6 members of the walton family own as much wealth now as 93 million Americans. If each of those Waltons spends a million dollars on consumer items, is that going to stimulate the economy as much as if those 93 million American spent each $1,000 on consumer items? That's why tax cuts to the lower class do more to stimulate the economy.

    At this point, our greatest barrier to prosperity is national debt and the currency problems that will follow. The fact that not everyone who has a job has your notion of a "fair" amount of compensation is unimportant by comparison.
    No our greatest obstacle to prosperity is to create the demand necessary to grow production. Besides, Romney doesn't have any plans to lower the deficit. He has announced in fact that he plans to continue the same borrow and spend policies of Bush, except he has proposed even more spending and even greater cuts to the revenues.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    What you got was the effect of a living wage in 100 cities vs cities that failed to enact a living wage, showing a loss of employment opportunities among the lowest of the economic scale. That's proof enough that raising min wage is ultimately detrimental. That you fail to admit this shows your utter dishonesty.
    Are you saying there are no national records to support your claims, or that you can't find them.

    If what you say is true, it should be no trouble to find, right?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #267
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So you now agree that many working full time making minimum wage need welfare?
    I didn't say they shouldn't in the first place.

    You know, it's funny how you only quote the portion of my post that you want, but not the other.
    Where I call you out for being dishonest in your debate tactics.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you push people too far, they fight back. The point is, you can only push people so far, and the working class has never been pushed harder since the Great Depression. That is going to be the big surprise in November for those that are so out of touch with how bad things are for people.
    Really? What has changed in the political system in this country that will affect this surprise? I hope I’m wrong but I think it will be you who will be surprised to find out that NOTHING has changed.

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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    It isn't that way in this part of the South, where people take pride in their redneck or hick heritage. Many people in my state share a story similar to my Grandparents on my Father's side, who came to this area from West Virginia during WWII, because job opportunites opened up. My Grandmother and Grandfather both worked in a shipyard during the war. I've spent months in West Virginia and Florida and years in both North and South Carolina. My brother lives in South Carolina, close to where I lived as a child. I know the South and I know the South has problems.

    I'm glad to see Georgia coming along as well as it has. I once took part of a vacation to Tampa, Florida to explore Georgia on the way back. Georgia is one big state and has some interesting features.

    When we get back to the subject of household income and the cost of living, the South doesn't shine the way people down there claim. There are cities in the South where households have good income, but the rural areas are impoverished. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't solve the problem. Besides poverty, the South has some of the most regressive taxation in the United States. It isn't a mystery why these backward ways keep people down.
    The South is a johnny come lately, largely because we were an agriculture region for so long.
    Even after the civil war it was like that.

    We've been industrializing a lot lately, that's mostly the reason for our new growth.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you push people too far, they fight back. The point is, you can only push people so far, and the working class has never been pushed harder since the Great Depression. That is going to be the big surprise in November for those that are so out of touch with how bad things are for people.
    There is no "pushing" to push back against or "fighting" to fight back against. People can group together and relocalize their economic activity and meet their own basic needs without some company having to provide them a "living wage." Or they can go around slitting throats. For some reason you seem to think they'll do the latter.

    Supply side economics and deregulation are the hallmarks of the conservative party for the last 30 years. Hell your candidates are still proposing the same failed **** we've put up with for the last 3o years!
    We would have had the same wealth concentration issues even with some other version of policy. This is the march of technological progress and overpopulation. This is what it looks like. Malthus saw it coming (in a different sort of way, but all the same), Marx saw it coming too. Too many people, less of a need for their labor. It goes way deeper than Republican policies.

    If that were the case, since we have record wealth at the top we should have record demand of production, right?
    No. Everyone who is alive consumes. We're all consumers.

    6 members of the walton family own as much wealth now as 93 million Americans. If each of those Waltons spends a million dollars on consumer items, is that going to stimulate the economy as much as if those 93 million American spent each $1,000 on consumer items?
    What could possibly be the point of asking a question like this? Who knows, who cares? The economy doesn't need to be stimulated.

    No our greatest obstacle to prosperity is to create the demand necessary to grow production.
    You're just parroting. You don't "create demand" when you take a dollar from one place and put it somewhere else. You just shift it around. You've subtracted it from somewhere else. Government is not our demand creator.

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