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Thread: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

  1. #231
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Did you, or did you not say you believed in welfare based on need?
    Sure, but so far you keep twisting what I said, into straw men.
    To quote you,

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    No, its not, we have federal guidelines that specify poverty level. You don't want people to be able to earn enough to support themselves and you don't want to provide welfare. What is another option???
    Now you've contradicted yourself.
    You now recognize that, I want welfare to be need based, but you just said I don't want to provide it.

    You need to figure out what I'm saying first.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #232
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sure,but so far you keep twisting what I said, into straw men.
    To quote you,

    Now you've contradicted yourself.
    You now recognize that, I want welfare to be need based, but you just said I don't want to provide it.

    You need to figure out what I'm saying first.
    You keep contradicting yourself.

    You have said you do not support paying people a living wage and you have indicated you think someone making a minimum wage doesn't need welfare despite the facts that show they do. Since minimum wage is below the poverty line in many cases you are leaving no way out for millions on welfare.


    That is no strawman.

    Then you also said you believed in welfare for those that needed it. But when it was pointed out to you that the number of people on welfare has increased each of the last 4 years and asked if you thought your taxes should have been increased for each of the last 4 years to meet that need, you go into your strawman routine rather than answering.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #233
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You keep contradicting yourself.

    You have said you do not support paying people a living wage and you have indicated you think someone making a minimum wage doesn't need welfare despite the facts that show they do. Since minimum wage is below the poverty line in many cases you are leaving no way out for millions on welfare.
    Nope I didn't say that.
    You made that up in your own head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That is no strawman.

    Then you also said you believed in welfare for those that needed it. But when it was pointed out to you that the number of people on welfare has increased each of the last 4 years and asked if you thought your taxes should have been increased for each of the last 4 years to meet that need, you go into your strawman routine rather than answering.
    Because your arguments against me are nearly entirely made up.
    If your post is a straw man, I don't have to defend it, I didn't make the argument, you did.
    That's what a straw man is.

    It's an argument that's, at least partially, made up.
    You keep making up all these things, that I didn't say.

    Show me, word for word, where I said, "Someone making minimum wage doesn't need welfare."
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 02-05-12 at 09:26 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #234
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why don't you show me where the national unemployment rates have tracked increases in minimum wage to prove your ridiculous claim?
    Ridiculous claims? Sir I provided you with real world papers that took the whole matter into account. That you wish to turn a blind eye to data that refutes your position merely answers the question as to what motivates your desire for a "Living Wage". And that of course, would be political ideology. It's always nice when someone let's the truth out, however inadvertently.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Nope I didn't say that.
    So you now agree that many working full time making minimum wage need welfare?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Ridiculous claims? Sir I provided you with real world papers that took the whole matter into account. That you wish to turn a blind eye to data that refutes your position merely answers the question as to what motivates your desire for a "Living Wage". And that of course, would be political ideology. It's always nice when someone let's the truth out, however inadvertently.
    Sir you provided a paper that stated there were more successes with a living wage than there were failures in a sampling of cities. It was not a study on national trends. And, they said the reason for failure of the living wage method in some cities is because it was voted down by various elected officials so there was never any actual living wage in reality.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #237
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    But they are in third world nations and are because the rich takes most of the income and gives the workers squat. This is your comparison of what we should aspire to?
    my point is that there are not as many poor as some would have us believe.....
    Poor has been redefined to having only one car, or not having cable TV, or satellite TV, or an ipod, or not every member of the familly having a cell phone, etc.

    we are retired on a good income, and have 2 houses, but we live our daily lives like the "poor" of the USA should be living. Our car is 12 years old, truck is 10 years old, we had cable TV at one house and satellite at the other, dumping both as well as land line telephones for 2 cell phones only. TV antennas are cheap, good ones on Amazon are about $40 and pull in all the network channels, plus PBS, and spanish channels, in case you speak spanish. Most of our furniture is from yard sales and thrift stores, except mattresses and bedding. For groceries, we shop the sales and clip coupons.
    We got into the habit of being frugal at first, because we had to. Then we got out of the habit because we made lots of money. Now we are retired, and don't NEED to be frugal, but we do it anyway. It takes some effort, some planning, but most can do it.
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    my point is that there are not as many poor as some would have us believe.....
    Poor has been redefined to having only one car, or not having cable TV, or satellite TV, or an ipod, or not every member of the familly having a cell phone, etc.

    we are retired on a good income, and have 2 houses, but we live our daily lives like the "poor" of the USA should be living. Our car is 12 years old, truck is 10 years old, we had cable TV at one house and satellite at the other, dumping both as well as land line telephones for 2 cell phones only. TV antennas are cheap, good ones on Amazon are about $40 and pull in all the network channels, plus PBS, and spanish channels, in case you speak spanish. Most of our furniture is from yard sales and thrift stores, except mattresses and bedding. For groceries, we shop the sales and clip coupons.
    We got into the habit of being frugal at first, because we had to. Then we got out of the habit because we made lots of money. Now we are retired, and don't NEED to be frugal, but we do it anyway. It takes some effort, some planning, but most can do it.
    ......................

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    "Poverty in the United States

    The official poverty measure is published by the United States Census Bureau and shows that:

    In 2010, 46.9 million people were in poverty, up from 37.3 million in 2007 -- the fourth consecutive annual increase in the number of people in poverty . This is the largest number in the 52 years for which poverty rates have been published (DeNavas-Walt 2011, p. 14).

    The 2010 poverty rate was 15.1 percent, up from 12.5 percent in 1997. This is the highest poverty rate since 1993, but 7.3 percentage points lower than the poverty rate in 1959, the first year for poverty estimates. (DeNavas-Walt 2011, p. 14).

    The 2010 poverty rate for Hispanics was 26.6 percent, for Blacks 27.4 percent.
    In 2010, the poverty rate increased for children under age 18 from 20.7 percent to 22.0 percent.
    (DeNavas-Walt 2010 p. 14).

    20.5 million Americans live in extreme poverty. This means their family’s cash income is less than half of the poverty line, or about $10,000 a year for a family of four (DeNavas-Walt 2011, p. 19).

    49.9 million people or 16.3 percent of the American people, do not have medical insurance (DeNavas-Walt 2011, p. 23).


    "Minimum wage The United States enacts a minimum wage (as do some individual states) that tries to establish a floor for what can be paid as a wage by firms. The current minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. In 2008, the official U.S. poverty level for a family of 4 was $21,834 ( Census Bureau "Poverty Thresholds"). With a 40 hour week, a family of 4 with one minimum wage earner would earn $15,080, only 69 percent of the poverty level. The minimum wage level is not indexed to inflation, which means that the real benefits will be eroded by inflation."

    "One way the EITC reduces poverty is by supplementing the earnings of minimum-wage workers. At the minimum wage’s current level, such a family can move out of poverty only if it receives the EITC as well as food stamps (CBPP EITC.)"

    "Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) In 1996, TANF replaced the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program, which had been in existence since 1935. The TANF program provides block grants to states to provide assistance to needy families. States have discretion on how to use the funds."

    "Lack of available child care can well keep single mothers from working as required"
    Hunger in America: 2011 United States Hunger and Poverty Facts
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #239
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Anti poverty programs work for some, but I have relatives who choose to be poor....that kind cannot be helped.
    It will take a culture shift to make a difference, and it could be that this recession, that hurt so many, will be the turning point.
    Welcome to the 1950's....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  10. #240
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    Re: House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Sir you provided a paper that stated there were more successes with a living wage than there were failures in a sampling of cities. It was not a study on national trends. And, they said the reason for failure of the living wage method in some cities is because it was voted down by various elected officials so there was never any actual living wage in reality.
    a living wage isn't likely to be an incentive....minimum wage that you can live on smacks of welfare....
    altho I would like to see minimum wage indexed to congressional pay.
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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