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Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the operation

Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

TheNextEra said:
Bush worshippers forget what he did but then Cry look look what Obama is doing!!!. BConservative blinders are on when an R is in front of the President's name.

Fact is if you think what holder did is illegal, take him to court if you think you have the evidence. Should be easy right?
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Especially, when the topic has nothing to do with GW. :lamo
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

TheNextEra said:
What I find so double-standard is there are billions that are unaccounted for in Iraq during the Bush administation that could very well be funding Al-Qaeda and don't here a peep anymore from conservatives about that anymore.
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What does what Bush may or may not have done during Iraq war have to do with the current Fast and Furious controversy? How is what Bush may or may not have done relevent?
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

apdst said:
The DOJ authorized the ATF to give guns to the Mexican drug runners. That's not imagined; that's a fact.
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No ****, Sherlock. That's how sting operations work. Police departments authorize cops to give drugs to drug dealers and drug addicts.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

TheNextEra said:
Bush worshippers forget what he did but then Cry look look what Obama is doing!!!.
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Maybe it's because Bush has been out of office for 3 years and it's the actions and the decisions of Obama that are affecting people's lives today.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

AdamT said:
No ****, Sherlock. That's how sting operations work. Police departments authorize cops to give drugs to drug dealers and drug addicts.
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And what mafiasos have been stung? It wasnt a sting operation. It was arming of a private malitia. Where are all the gang members that got caught with guns via homing device and such? Why are no small frys squeeling on big fish? Because it was a weapon handout program run by the gubment.

The "intentions" side of the arguement lost all credibility when that border guard got shot by gubment handout weapons.

I think some people just have a hard time believing not all Americans are noble. That some are scumbags. And that some might actually want to destabalize the Mexican police. If you are not willing to take a stand against these scumbags pretending to be patriots then shame on you.
 
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Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

dirtpoorchris said:
And what mafiasos have been stung? It wasnt a sting operation. It was arming of a private malitia. Where are all the gang members that got caught with guns via homing device and such? Why are no small frys squeeling on big fish? Because it was a weapon handout program run by the gubment.
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(AP) PHOENIX - Two men pleaded guilty to buying guns that were destined to be smuggled into Mexico, the first convictions in the federal government's botched Operation Fast and Furious.

The men were so-called "straw buyers" who acknowledged purchasing guns that they knew were headed to Mexican drug gangs.

The goal of the federal government's investigation was to catch weapons-trafficking kingpins, but firearms agents lost track of many weapons they were trying to trace to smuggling ringleaders, and some guns ended up at crime scenes in Mexico and the U.S.

First convictions from Fast and Furious probe - CBS News
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So yeah, it was a boneheaded plan, but it obviously wasn't any kind of sinister plot.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

AdamT said:
So yeah, it was a boneheaded plan, but it obviously wasn't any kind of sinister plot.
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I bet these 2 dudes where also given the go ahead by the program so they could see where they trickled to. So where are those caught gangsters on the far side? ATF starts a program to let guns walk over to mexico. These guys buy them on our side and then it stopped there? Hmm.. Seems like someone is creating problems from scratch. How did these 2 guys bring down the kingpins? Wasnt the whole point of fast and furious is that they where knowingly buying guns that where destined for Mexico? Sounds to me like the ATF threw one of their own colluders under the bus.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

AdamT said:
Trying to keep illegal guns out of the hands of murderous Mexican drug cartels is sinister? Wow.
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I'd hate to see how you'd fight teenage pregnancy.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Moderator's Warning:
Arguing about whether or not other posters are off-topic is off-topic.

Don't play moderator. If you have a problem, report it and leave it to the professionals.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Viktyr Korimir said:
I'd hate to see how you'd fight teenage pregnancy.
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I'll bite. What has teen age pregnancy got to do with deliberately and illegally placing guns in the hands of murderers.

Were we sending teen girls to Mexico so that the drug lords could get them knocked up? If so then Holder needs to produce a lot more documents than those he is refusing to produce even though he is under subpoena to do so.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

AdamT said:
Huh? I have no idea what you're talking about. One, it was not illegal. Two, it did not compromise domestic security. Three, the good intention was to try to shut down the flow of illegal arms to Mexican drug cartels that, of course, ultimately peddle their drugs in the United States.
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Coercing FFL dealers to look the other way so criminals can make straw purchases is definitely illegal. Allowing criminals to cross the US border with firearms is also illegal.

So allowing criminals to walk across the border with illegally purchased firearms where the US has no jurisdiction constitutes the good intention of trying to shut down the flow of illegal arms and in turn drug dealers?

This executed plan of incompetence exudes criminal activity.

The lack of perceptive thought from liberals about this issue never ceases to amaze me.

I guess Holder's road to Hell is paved with good intention, eh?
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Μολὼν λαβέ;1060172080 said:
Coercing FFL dealers to look the other way so criminals can make straw purchases is definitely illegal. Allowing criminals to cross the US border with firearms is also illegal.

So allowing criminals to walk across the border with illegally purchased firearms where the US has no jurisdiction constitutes the good intention of trying to shut down the flow of illegal arms and in turn drug dealers?

This executed plan of incompetence exudes criminal activity.

The lack of perceptive thought from liberals about this issue never ceases to amaze me.

I guess Holder's road to Hell is paved with good intention, eh?
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This is getting a little repetitive, but in fact law enforcement can, and often does, violate the law in sting and under cover operations. No argument that the whole thing was poorly executed.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Viktyr Korimir said:
I'd hate to see how you'd fight teenage pregnancy.
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LOL. You are a funny man. For some reason my mind brings me to the scene in braveheart where the king says, "If we cant get them out... We'll breed..... them out."

 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

j-mac said:
Does anyone seriously not just bust out in laughter when this clown testifies? I mean really now....


j-mac
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Obama better be careful, as Nixon learned it's the cover up that brings you down.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

sawyerloggingon said:
Obama better be careful, as Nixon learned it's the cover up that brings you down.
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Didn't seem to hurt Reagan or Bush Jr.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

AdamT said:
This is getting a little repetitive, but in fact law enforcement can, and often does, violate the law in sting and under cover operations. No argument that the whole thing was poorly executed.
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Repetitive? Firearms crossing an international border from USA gun shops, coerced by the Justice Department? I don't think so. Try again.
 
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Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

AdamT said:
j-mac said:
Does anyone seriously not just bust out in laughter when this clown testifies? I mean really now....
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I assure you that the only people laughing, or paying the slightest bit of attention to this issue, are hardcore conservatives. No one else gives a **** about it.
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I laugh at the partisan desperation of the right wingnuts (such as Congressman Issa (R-CA) that push issues like this, as well as at their hamhanded incompetent tactics.

His supporters rate a chuckle as well ;)
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

j-mac said:
No, it was a blunder that was being used to further an agenda within the WH concerning the 2nd amendment [...]
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Whoa now... Conspiracy Forum is two flights down :2razz:
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

American said:
Funny, the only people that want to disarm the entire American population, are the same that are ignoring this.
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Follow j-mac down the stairs; you'll wind up the right place too ;)

But I do like the Orwellian thrust of your logic -- since people are 'ignoring' the story means that the story is 'true'. Nice :lamo
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

mtlhdtodd said:
Hell they went after Gonzalez just for firing some attorneys.
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Firing an attorney that refuses to investigate an innocent person is not a good thing in most peoples' book.

What book do you use? One written by the Gestapo?

The dismissal of U.S. Attorneys controversy was initiated by the unprecedented[1] midterm dismissal of seven United States Attorneys on December 7, 2006 by the George W. Bush administration's Department of Justice. Congressional investigations focused on whether the Department of Justice and the White House were using the U.S. Attorney positions for political advantage. Allegations were that some of the attorneys were targeted for dismissal to impede investigations of Republican politicians or that some were targeted for their failure to initiate investigations that would damage Democratic politicians or hamper Democratic-leaning voters.[2][3] The U.S. attorneys were replaced with interim appointees, under provisions in the 2005 USA PATRIOT Act reauthorization.[4][5][6][7][8]

[...] By mid-September 2007, nine of the highest-level officers of the Department of Justice associated with the controversy had resigned,[16][17][18][19] most prominently, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.[20][21][22][23]

Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Viktyr Korimir said:
There's nothing "desperate" or "obsessive" about demanding the resignation of a public official who has violated his oath of office, harmed the people he is responsible for protecting, and betrayed the founding principles of our nation.
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Too bad the Bush Administration is no longer in office.

If you find someone else who meets your criteria, give us a shout.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

dirtpoorchris said:
Bull****. They armed mafia with gernades and full autos. They funded choas in Mexico. What "they" say and their intentions mean diddly squat. Their actions is all that needs to be taken into consideration. They armed mafia in Mexico.
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Assuming your claims are accurate, you know the program began in 2006, right?

So, do you want some Republican heads as well? Or are only Democratic heads on your menu?
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Viktyr Korimir said:
[...] How many murders, of law enforcement officers and innocent civilians, have happened as a direct result of known criminals being supplied military weapons by the government?
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In this particular case, none that you could ever prove in a court of law (other than some type of accessory or negligence charge)... the obvious logic being that if the U.S.-supplied guns had never been provided, guns from some other source would have been obtained and the murders would therefore have occurred regardless.

As the right is prone to say, guns don't kill people -- people kill people :peace
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Karl said:
Assuming your claims are accurate, you know the program began in 2006, right?

So, do you want some Republican heads as well? Or are only Democratic heads on your menu?
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I dont give a **** what team they where cheering for, what side they where on. If they did wrong I want them punished.

Karl said:
In this particular case, none that you could ever prove in a court of law (other than some type of accessory or negligence charge)... the obvious logic being that if the U.S.-supplied guns had never been provided, guns from some other source would have been obtained and the murders would therefore have occurred regardless.

As the right is prone to say, guns don't kill people -- people kill people :peace
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That philosophical deduction is all fine and dandy. But I still care about conspiracy and collusion.
 
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Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Sparky said:
So in other words are you saying you and people like you don't care about Holder's incompentence and possible cover up that resulted in a border agent's death and his grieving family?
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In other words, most people don't care about conspiracy theories that are manufactured to support a partisan witch hunt, that may well be fueled by racism.

I think that hits the high points ;)
 
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