Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 89101112 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 119

Thread: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the operation

  1. #91
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,719

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Your posts indicate the opposite.

    I don't care what the differences are... both programs walked guns into Mexico, which is what the right is braying about. Even if all the Fast and Furious guns had been tracked, and had permission of the Mexican gov't, the right would still be trying to string Holder up because -- guns were walked into Mexico (and their 2nd Amendment conspiracy theory would still be in use). Therefore your distinction is simply a red herring.

    The ways in which they are different is exactly why it is pertinent. WIde Reciever and Gunwalker were different programs with different intermediaries and different interdiction capabilities. Holder can see that, why cant you?


    It is being investigated by a right wingnut (Rep. Issa).
    Nice ad hom. Thats your argument? Dismissed.




    That is the only court that Rep. Issa is concerned with. This is proven by his right wingnuttery commentary, such as "As facts continue to emerge about a botched gun investigation of Mexican cartels, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has given the American people reason to doubt his ability to effectively lead the Department of Justice."[1], and such as "a U.S. Border Patrol agent was killed by a weapon linked to the botched operation,"[1] (a bald faced lie, as you have already concurred). Of course, I'm sure he'd be kicking his heels in glee if the administration did something dumb, like implicated themself in a coverup.

    Actually the only thing I said was that the weapons have not been proven to be the weapons that shot Terry, but they also have not been ruled out. Can you tell the difference between the two?


    You cannot produce evidence of a crime that has not been committed. Anger is also not evidence... anger that an agent got killed, nor anger that a black man is in the White House.
    There is all kinds of evidence of a crime committed, but because it was undertaken as a law enforcement activity its hard to prove when its prosecutable. Secondly your blanket accusation of racism towards Terry's parents is pretty disgusting.


    __________________________________________________ _________
    1. Fast and Furious Investigation
    1. They are only important to hypocrites (i.e., those who are trying to punish the Obama administration for a program that was germinated under the Bush administration).

    2. May I suggest remedial logic instruction? I count at least three errors in same in that one sentence.
    I cant tell whether this is trolling, a personal attack or a red herring, it has elements of all three.

    Soooo, we are back to your defenses of this being BOOOOOOSSSSHHHHH, the Race Card(tm), Crime? What Crime? and its Republicans so it don't matter.

    Post when you have an actual argument, some of us actually want to know what our government is doing.

  2. #92
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    [...] some of us actually want to know what our government is doing.
    I doubt it. However, they are spying on you (as we 'speak'), and they are turning you into economic slaves (mostly at the direction of Wall Street). Now you know.

    That should give you something useful to look in to... why not petition Mr. Issa to get right on that? Instead of wasting huge amounts of money and distressing number of lives on a silly war on drugs. . . . legalize 'em, tax 'em, what's your next insurmountable problem?

  3. #93
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,719

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I doubt it. However, they are spying on you (as we 'speak'), and they are turning you into economic slaves (mostly at the direction of Wall Street). Now you know.

    That should give you something useful to look in to... why not petition Mr. Issa to get right on that? Instead of wasting huge amounts of money and distressing number of lives on a silly war on drugs. . . . legalize 'em, tax 'em, what's your next insurmountable problem?
    Just say no. Really.

  4. #94
    King of Videos
    dirtpoorchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    WA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,001

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Glad to hear it Eric, it should make it that much easier to prosecute the Criminally Negligent.





    Law Enforcement officials have a duty to protect life. Purposefully allowing assault rifles to pass into the hands of known murderous cartels not only violated their duty to protect life, but will likely be found to cross the line into "wanton disregard for human life" territory.
    Im not sure what this is. But ill leave it here and read it more later.

    Gunwalker: Justice Dept. Violated U.S. Laws Beyond Those Being Investigated | Kajunman's Blog

    It is not necessary that an individual or governmental entity be shown to have “knowingly” violated any of these programs:
    I know, because I was the principal drafter of some of the legislation.
    by
    James K. Stinebower

    Bio

    December 5, 2011 – 12:00 am
    As we continue to watch the general uproar over the Operation Fast and Furious program, and specifically what Attorney General Holder knew and when he knew it, it needs to be noted that perjury is not the only apparent violation of law to have occurred.

    I refer to the apparent violation of at least one (probably two) major U.S. laws by the Holder Justice Department. A few years ago, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701, the follow-on to the Trading with the Enemy Act) was expanded in order to criminalize any transactions between U.S. entities — to include departments and agencies of the U.S. government — and all foreign drug cartels.

    I am familiar with these prohibitive statues because several years ago, while serving as the senior drug analyst for the Senate Intelligence Committee, I was tasked to initiate and became the principal drafter of legislation which became known as the Kingpin Act (21 U.S.C. §§ 1901-08). The Kingpin Act is an extension of the highly successful IEEPA sanctioning program specifically targeting Colombian drug cartels. It expands sanctions authority against various drug cartel operations worldwide — including Mexico — which have been determined by the president to be threats to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States.

    A violation of any of the IEEPA sanctioning programs or the Kingpin Act carries stiff penalties, both criminal and civil, and potentially totaling decades in prison and tens of millions of dollars in fines. It is not necessary that an individual or governmental entity be shown to have “knowingly” violated any of these programs: it is illegal for any U.S. entity or individual to aid, abet, or materially assist — or in the case of Operation Fast and Furious, to facilitate others to aid, abet, or materially assist — designated drug traffickers. There are no exceptions within IEEPA programs for unlicensed U.S. law enforcement or intelligence agency operations.

    Based on the July 5, 2010, memo to Eric Holder, it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico. The U.S. Department of the Treasury, which administers both the IEEPA and Kingpin Act programs, has designated numerous members of the Sinaloa cartel under both programs. IEEPA prohibitions apply to the U.S. government as well as to individuals, and as stated there are no exceptions within IEEPA programs for unlicensed U.S. law enforcement or intelligence agency operations.

    There is a provision in the Kingpin Act for “authorized” law enforcement and intelligence activities, however the only procedure by which an Operation Fast and Furious program could have been “authorized” under the Kingpin Act was by the U.S. attorney general requesting a waiver (known within the Treasury Department as a Specific License), prior to any such operation being undertaken. To illustrate and emphasize this point: even during the run-up to war in Iraq, the U.S. secretary of Defense had to obtain waivers (specific licenses) from the Treasury Department to allow U.S. Special Forces and their necessary equipment (to include weapons, intelligence gathering, and targeting gear) to go into Iraq, as Iraq at the time was under separate IEEPA sanctions.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  5. #95
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I doubt it. However, they are spying on you (as we 'speak'), and they are turning you into economic slaves (mostly at the direction of Wall Street). Now you know.

    That should give you something useful to look in to... why not petition Mr. Issa to get right on that? Instead of wasting huge amounts of money and distressing number of lives on a silly war on drugs. . . . legalize 'em, tax 'em, what's your next insurmountable problem?
    I see, so it is all the fault of capitalism eh?

    You commies are so funny....And predictable.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #96
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Last Seen
    07-12-12 @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    494

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I doubt it. However, they are spying on you (as we 'speak'), and they are turning you into economic slaves (mostly at the direction of Wall Street). Now you know.

    That should give you something useful to look in to... why not petition Mr. Issa to get right on that? Instead of wasting huge amounts of money and distressing number of lives on a silly war on drugs. . . . legalize 'em, tax 'em, what's your next insurmountable problem?
    I am utterly convinced that you're shacked up somewhere in a tent at one of those OWS location. Do you actually believe these things you're saying?

  7. #97
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I doubt it. However, they are spying on you (as we 'speak'), and they are turning you into economic slaves (mostly at the direction of Wall Street). Now you know.

    That should give you something useful to look in to... why not petition Mr. Issa to get right on that? Instead of wasting huge amounts of money and distressing number of lives on a silly war on drugs. . . . legalize 'em, tax 'em, what's your next insurmountable problem?
    I see, so it is all the fault of capitalism eh?

    You commies are so funny....And predictable.
    Not as funny as this particular application of your analytical skills... for if you want to find fault, my comment clearly indicates
    a) that the fault lies with excessive government intervention into the lives of its citizens (to wit: outlawing drugs), and
    b) the solution is to remove the prohibition against drugs, allow capitalism (instead of criminalism) to flourish and tax it accordingly.

  8. #98
    Debate MMA
    Prof. Peabody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Seen
    07-30-12 @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,361

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Im not sure what this is. But ill leave it here and read it more later.

    Gunwalker: Justice Dept. Violated U.S. Laws Beyond Those Being Investigated | Kajunman's Blog
    You should try to avoid kook blogs if you want the truth.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  9. #99
    King of Videos
    dirtpoorchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    WA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,001

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    You should try to avoid kook blogs if you want the truth.
    So where they trading with friends or enemies of the USA/Mexico?
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  10. #100
    Debate MMA
    Prof. Peabody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Seen
    07-30-12 @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,361

    Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    So where they trading with friends or enemies of the USA/Mexico?
    If your talking about "Gunrunner" they were dealing with enemies. How can anyone be friends with murderous gangs?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 89101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •