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Family: Boy, 15, shot to death after attacking police had autism disorder

Temporal said:
How is it that police in other countries are able to subdue violent individuals without killing them, yet USA police can't do it?

There is a serious flaw in police training when someone with a knife dies while facing off with several police who are armed with batons, tasers, and guns.

There is always a choice in whether or not you kill someone. ALWAYS. Whether you are a trained officer who is allowed to use legal force, or a civilian about to commit murder. Always always always there is a choice.

This poor boy should not have died. There is no excuse. This is a travesty.
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I teach people that if someone has a knife and they are within 20 feet of you and your gun is not aimed at them get away as fast as possible and put stuff like chairs or tables between you and them and then shoot them as many times as it takes
 
AdamT said:
I'm not going to condemn the cop, but it seems to me that they could have done more to take the kid down without shooting him. You've got five cops there, right? How about one guy tazes the kid while the other four keep their weapons trained on him? Just sayin'.
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You have been in a lot of knife fights?


Didn't think so
 
AdamT said:
Exactly as many as you.
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wow, two knife fights? I think you are lying. the first guy didnt figure on me hitting him in the face with a stream of CS while I was yanking out a Gerber MK II, didn't need to cut him-just snap kicked him in the jaw and threw his switchblade down a storm sewer and waited for the cops to show up

second guy figured a 6 inch switchblade was more than a match against some skinny white dude with a 2 foot piece of rattan. bad move. I was already nationally ranked in a racquet sport and hitting a skull was a lot easier than a ball going 100 miles an hour. I guess the guy made it to the ER where the constabulary was waiting for him.
 
AdamT said:
Exactly as many as you.
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No need to be a smart ass

Merely the sudden flashing of a knife is frequently enough to strike fear into your opponent, causing him to lose confidence and surrender

Knife fighting isn't about fencing. The odds of getting into a knife on knife fight is slim and if it happens, you ****ed up everything from the moment you opened your eyes in the morning, dude

I **** you not....in close-quarters fighting there is no more deadly weapon than a ****ing knife
 
ric27 said:
No need to be a smart ass

Merely the sudden flashing of a knife is frequently enough to strike fear into your opponent, causing him to lose confidence and surrender

Knife fighting isn't about fencing. The odds of getting into a knife on knife fight is slim and if it happens, you ****ed up everything from the moment you opened your eyes in the morning, dude

I **** you not....in close-quarters fighting there is no more deadly weapon than a ****ing knife
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True enough

my favorite books include

anything by Mark "animal" macyoung

the late Michael Echanis

and of course-Secrets of Folsom Prison knife fighting
 
FinnMacCool said:
I don't think it's anybody's fault. The cops did what they had to do, but the kid was suffering from a mental illness. There is no need to place any blame. It's just a terrible tragedy.
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This says it all ^
 
This is a collective **** up, by the mother and the cops.
 
ric27 said:
No need to be a smart ass

Merely the sudden flashing of a knife is frequently enough to strike fear into your opponent, causing him to lose confidence and surrender

Knife fighting isn't about fencing. The odds of getting into a knife on knife fight is slim and if it happens, you ****ed up everything from the moment you opened your eyes in the morning, dude

I **** you not....in close-quarters fighting there is no more deadly weapon than a ****ing knife
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I was actually responding to the smart ass.

I will tell you this though: if you think it's a good idea to flash that knife, you'd best be prepared to use it. Don't ask me how I know.
 
AdamT said:
I was actually responding to the smart ass.

I will tell you this though: if you think it's a good idea to flash that knife, you'd best be prepared to use it. Don't ask me how I know.
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Good luck! Most do not see the knife to begin with, and thinking just being punched multiple times until they see blood
 
AdamT said:
I will tell you this though: if you think it's a good idea to flash that knife, you'd best be prepared to use it. Don't ask me how I know.
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I've never been in a knife fight, never been in a gun fight either, but I think I would rather be in a knife fight with a gun than a gun fight with a knife.

I wasn't at the home, but from the article, this was no small disturbed child, but a grown man with a history of violence who had already demonstrated his willingness to use his knife with deadly force. Seems to me that the outcome was a given.
 
I would assume a great deal of his anxiety and problems stemmed from compulsory "education". Maybe if the system were more accommodating towards individuality, he would have had less reason to lash out at authority figures like his mother and the police.

Of course, I'm speculating, but given the nature of the complaint (didn't want to go to school) and his condition (Asperger's), I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption to make.

Brian
 
I treat lots of folks with Aspergers. There is wide variation in behaviors... some can get quite angry, but most are pretty passive due to their social deficits, often resulting in social anxiety. Personal slights, perceived or real, are taken VERY seriously by the individual. However, my guess would be that, in the case of the young man in the story, there was more going on than just Aspergers. Regardless, under the circumstances, the cops acted appropriately.
 
MaggieD said:
This is a tragedy. Who's at fault here? Anyone?

Family: Boy, 15, shot to death after attacking police had autism disorder - chicagotribune.com
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The tragedy is that people are thinking his "aspergers" made it wrong to cap his dumbass. You know what aspergers REALLY is? A condition of social awkwardness. My ex had my son diagnosed with that from a 15 min visit to a shrink who then promptly put him on pills.

We used to call those kids shy, now it's a "problem" with pills to solve.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I treat lots of folks with Aspergers. There is wide variation in behaviors... some can get quite angry, but most are pretty passive due to their social deficits, often resulting in social anxiety. Personal slights, perceived or real, are taken VERY seriously by the individual. However, my guess would be that, in the case of the young man in the story, there was more going on than just Aspergers. Regardless, under the circumstances, the cops acted appropriately.
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It's called shyness, and is just an excuse to put kids on brain pills.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
I've never heard of autism causing that. My mother taught autistic kids and violence was NEVER one of their issues.
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I look after Autistic kids and they're often violent. You get them out of their routine and they can go nuts, they can't handle the situation and violence is their only resort. I, and other carers I work with have received bruises, bites, scratches, bumps, grazes etc.


MrVicchio said:
The tragedy is that people are thinking his "aspergers" made it wrong to cap his dumbass. You know what aspergers REALLY is? A condition of social awkwardness. My ex had my son diagnosed with that from a 15 min visit to a shrink who then promptly put him on pills.

We used to call those kids shy, now it's a "problem" with pills to solve.
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:lol: You're a dumbarse.
 
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MaggieD said:
Yeah....that's kind of where I am on it, Digsbe. My best friend's son is 26 years old, 6'4", and mentally handicapped. Sue always says that she wishes he was either just a bit less handicapped -- or just a bit more. She says that because he is so aware of how different he is...and what he misses in his life compared to his 24-year-old brother who's getting married shortly. He has lots of trouble handling his anger. His story might not read much differently than this young man's.

He's man-handled his mom, punched walls, gotten so angry Sue's hurriedly left the house to avoid his temper. He punched her once. The police have been to her home three or four times. (Her heart is absolutely broken! for her son. She keeps him on some psychotropic meds that, lately, have controlled him extremely well. But she sees that he's drugged...and feels really bad about it. So.....as she's done in the past, she's just begun cutting back on his meds. Me? I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Again.
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Wow, that must be very heartwrenching for her... maybe you need to point this story out to her though, and remind her that there are worse things than being drugged.
 
nonpareil said:
The parents held some responsibility, he had used knife before so they should know better than to let him get his hands on it again. Lock the knifes up after use if necessary, it's hard but it's a known danger so it should have been avoided.
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He was 220.. how could his family control him?
 
One of the things I hate about Tasers is that people think they are supposed to be the cops' solution to everything. No matter what someone does, someone else says "oh they should have just Tasered him!"

Situations are dynamic and **** happens. Perfect judgement under stress is difficult. Tasers are a restraining tool with limitations that many people don't understand... they aren't like star trek phasers set on stun.


Tasers are primarily for dealing with resistance, not with lethal threats.
 
sharon said:
He was 220.. how could his family control him?
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I was talking about keeping the knives under lock before he could get his hands on them in the first place after that last 2 times. And when they couldn't control him, they should know that their son is probably not safe at home if for no other reason than that he could harm himself.
 
Goshin said:
One of the things I hate about Tasers is that people think they are supposed to be the cops' solution to everything. No matter what someone does, someone else says "oh they should have just Tasered him!"

Situations are dynamic and **** happens. Perfect judgement under stress is difficult. Tasers are a restraining tool with limitations that many people don't understand... they aren't like star trek phasers set on stun.


Tasers are primarily for dealing with resistance, not with lethal threats.
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I think the point people are making is that the kid was probably not a lethal threat until the policemen crowd him, they had dealt with him in similar situations before, and if they teased him right away before he could attack, then the situation might have been resolved differently. Irregardless, if someone cut you with a knife, you have a right to shoot, could have would have doesn't matter now.
 
MrVicchio said:
The tragedy is that people are thinking his "aspergers" made it wrong to cap his dumbass. You know what aspergers REALLY is? A condition of social awkwardness. My ex had my son diagnosed with that from a 15 min visit to a shrink who then promptly put him on pills.

We used to call those kids shy, now it's a "problem" with pills to solve.
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Why do you make **** up like this? Just one little visit to wikipedia would have helped you know you were about to get caught lying. Seriously, it's not that hard:

Diagnosis of Asperger syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Developmental screening during a routine check-up by a general practitioner or pediatrician may identify signs that warrant further investigation. This will require a comprehensive team evaluation to either confirm or exclude a diagnosis of AS. This team usually includes a psychologist, neurologist, psychiatrist, speech and language pathologist, occupational therapist and other professionals with expertise in diagnosing children with AS.[5][6] Observation occurs across multiple settings; the social disability in AS may be more evident during periods when social expectations are unclear and children are free of adult direction.[9] A comprehensive evaluation includes neurological and genetic assessment, with in-depth cognitive and language testing to establish IQ and evaluate psychomotor function, verbal and nonverbal strengths and weaknesses, style of learning, and skills for independent living. An assessment of communication strengths and weaknesses includes the evaluation of nonverbal forms of communication (gaze and gestures); the use of non-literal language (metaphor, irony, absurdities and humor); patterns of speech inflection, stress and volume; pragmatics (turn-taking and sensitivity to verbal cues); and the content, clarity and coherence of conversation.[6] Testing may include an audiological referral to exclude hearing impairment. The determination of whether there is a family history of autism spectrum conditions is important.[10] A medical practitioner will diagnose on the basis of the test results and the child’s developmental history and current symptoms.[6] Because multiple domains of functioning are involved, a multidisciplinary team approach is critical;[3] an accurate assessment of the individual's strengths and weaknesses is more useful than a diagnostic label.[9] Delayed or mistaken diagnosis is a serious problem that can be traumatic for individuals and families; diagnosis based solely on a neurological, speech and language, or educational attainment may yield only a partial diagnosis.[3]

Advances in genetic technology allow clinical geneticists to link an estimated 40% of ASD cases to genetic causes; in one study the diagnostic yield for AS, PDD-NOS and atypical autism was similar to that for classic autism.[11] Genetic diagnosis is relatively expensive,[11] and genetic screening is generally impractical. As genetic tests are developed several ethical, legal, and social issues will emerge. Commercial availability of tests may precede adequate understanding of how to use test results, given the complexity of the genetics.[
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15 minutes huh? :lol:
 
It does not matter how many times the police have been to this person's house or interacted with that person, there is no way to anticipate the actions of someone who is mentally ill and has been violent other than there will be more violence. One policeman had already been injured. The officers had no way out of the room without passing by the mentally ill person with a knife.

When someone chooses to be a police officer they accept that there is a certain amount of danger that comes with the job, however, they do not consent to being injured or killed.

I hardly beleive that these police officers acted without forethought for both the welfare of the mentally ill person and the welfare of themselves and their fellow officers. Not to mention dealing with the aftermath of the shooting replete with administrative inquiries, possible civil lawsuits, a great deal of personal reflection of over the incident and the constant self questioning of whether they could have done this differently for a lengthy period of time.
 
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