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Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

Catawba said:
Most have jobs now, they are just not paid enough to live on. From a taxpayers point of view, a living wage for full time work seems much preferable to tax payer supported welfare.
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Minimum wage is a living wage. You can live on minimum wage in most parts of the country. Tax payer supported welfare, especially that which helps people with food (food stamps) and heat and things is a great idea. We just execute it poorly in the US.
 
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muciti said:
Minimum wage is a living wage. You can live on minimum wage in most parts of the country. Tax payer supported welfare, especially that which helps people with food (food stamps) and heat and things is a great idea. We just execute it poorly in the US.
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Minimum wage in most states is below a living wage and require subsidies through taxpayer supported welfare.
 
Catawba said:
Minimum wage for my locality in Virginia is $7.25 an hour. According to the living wage calculator developed by Pennsylvania State University, a living wage in my locality would only be $8.23. An increase of $0.98 an hour doesn't sound unrealistic to me for those that work full time.

Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator
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Do they/you factor in the potential for inflation to fund the wage increase? IOW: if the MW is raised to $8.23/hr, does the needed "living wage" suddenly rise to $8.97? That's the dog/tail chasing aspect.

Now, I have known people who always wail and gnash their teeth that any significant minimum wage increase will cause a high percentage of businesses to close right off the bat, and I think that is brain dead hyperbole as it has never once been born out, but I do think there has to be some level of compensation on the other end.

Of course, a living wage on paper, and what people think they need as a living wage to fund their video games and satellite tv and such are two entirely different things.
 
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Boo Radley said:
Well, hell, let's just have everyone tested always. Government is the answer after all. never knew you were such a fan of big government. I bet there are other things we can check for as well. Make sure there's not too fat in the diet? Sugar will have to be monitored as well. And we sure can't have smoking or booze either. And let's make sure all the readning and viewing material is appropriate. No sleeping past 6 am either. We all know the early bird gets the worm. And since you want this can opened, might as well go big or go home.

:coffeepap
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Joe, there are regulations in my field that because I operate a tractor trailer that weigh alot, and have the capacity to do immense damage in accidents. I agree with that. In our society we have said, and the supreme court has backed up that occupations that carry consquence to the public good, whether that be safety, or other considerations like nursing, etc....In fact there are tax considerations for being a "drug free" workplace. Why is it that you get upset at the possibility of educators, the people responsible for the most valuable asset this country has, our children, why shouldn't they be tested?


j-mac
 
Catawba said:
Minimum wage for my locality in Virginia is $7.25 an hour. According to the living wage calculator developed by Pennsylvania State University, a living wage in my locality would only be $8.23. An increase of $0.98 an hour doesn't sound unrealistic to me for those that work full time.

Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator
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BWAHAAAAAA! Living Wage Calculator....That is priceless....the figure in my county, and state, as a Married couple with two children says I should demand $28.65 per hour.....HA! Good luck with that in the Obama economy.


hello. Mickey D's? I have a wife and two kids, I demand you pay me a living wage of $28.65 per hour....Response: The door is over there sir.....





j-mac
 
Catawba said:
Minimum wage in most states is below a living wage and require subsidies through taxpayer supported welfare.
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Not true at all. The living wage according to the above calculator for my family, 4 people, is $29.17. I make well under that. My wife doesn't work. I receive no welfare of any kind. And we live fairly comfortably.

Living within our means is perfectly fine. My kids and I and my wife all have everything we need. We just might not be able to get all of the latest stuff. That doesnt quite constitute a need though.
 
"Living Wage" is just another meme of the Social Marxist to incite class warfare.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
BWAHAAAAAA! Living Wage Calculator....That is priceless....the figure in my county, and state, as a Married couple with two children says I should demand $28.65 per hour.....HA! Good luck with that in the Obama economy.


hello. Mickey D's? I have a wife and two kids, I demand you pay me a living wage of $28.65 per hour....Response: The door is over there sir.....





j-mac
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The $28.65 is for two adults with two kids.

A couple making $28.65 is unheard of in your area? Where do you live?
 
radcen said:
Do they/you factor in the potential for inflation to fund the wage increase? IOW: if the MW is raised to $8.23/hr, does the needed "living wage" suddenly rise to $8.97? That's the dog/tail chasing aspect.
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You are assuming companies won't lower excessive management pay in order to increase competition (sales).

Now, I have known people who always wail and gnash their teeth that any significant minimum wage increase will cause a high percentage of businesses to close right off the bat, and I think that is brain dead hyperbole as it has never once been born out, but I do think there has to be some level of compensation on the other end.

Of course, a living wage on paper, and what people think they need as a living wage to fund their video games and satellite tv and such are two entirely different things.
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The living wage calculator and all that I have ever heard anyone propose are a minimum living standard just above the poverty line so that welfare would not be needed for supplement subsistence.
 
muciti said:
Not true at all. The living wage according to the above calculator for my family, 4 people, is $29.17. I make well under that. My wife doesn't work. I receive no welfare of any kind. And we live fairly comfortably.

Living within our means is perfectly fine. My kids and I and my wife all have everything we need. We just might not be able to get all of the latest stuff. That doesnt quite constitute a need though.
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How much is your health insurance per year for you and the family?
 
Catawba said:
You are assuming companies won't lower excessive management pay in order to increase competition (sales).
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You bet. I am presuming exactly that. I'm sure some companies might, but I think those would be the exception, not the rule.
 
muciti said:
I have it taken out of my check automatically. I don't have the exact figure, but I pay roughtly $200/mo for health, dental, vision and life insurance.
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If you're paying $200/month then your employer is probably paying twice that much for your policy -- which actually reduces your pay by the same amount.
 
muciti said:
I have it taken out of my check automatically. I don't have the exact figure, but I pay roughtly $200/mo for health, dental, vision and life insurance.
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You must be very young. It costs the wife and I $12,000 a year for not much more than catastrophic health insurance coverage and neither of us has any major health problems, and that doesn't include the costs for doctor visits, prescriptions, or lab tests.
 
Catawba said:
You must be very young. It costs the wife and I $12,000 a year for not much more than catastrophic health insurance coverage and neither of us has any major health problems, and that doesn't include the costs for doctor visits, prescriptions, or lab tests.
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Well, mine is about the same, and I am 50 this year.


j-mac
 
Catawba said:
You must be very young. It costs the wife and I $12,000 a year for not much more than catastrophic health insurance coverage and neither of us has any major health problems, and that doesn't include the costs for doctor visits, prescriptions, or lab tests.
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I am 31.

That is a lot of money for health insurance. No doubt about that. Doesn't change anything about the conversation. A person does not need $28/hr to survive.
 
j-mac said:
Well, mine is about the same, and I am 50 this year.


j-mac
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Then you have an exceptionally good insurance deal from your company. It is not the norm, which is probably why you have no empathy for the millions who are struggling with health care costs in this country.
 
muciti said:
I am 31.

That is a lot of money for health insurance. No doubt about that. Doesn't change anything about the conversation. A person does not need $28/hr to survive.
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No one said one person needs $28/hr to live above the poverty line.

BTW, how much do you think a couple has to earn to pay $12,000 in health insurance annually, along with other living costs?
 
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muciti said:
I wouldn't know. That is what government assistance is for.
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Which brings us full circle back to my suggestion of a living wage as an alternative to taxpayer supported welfare.

Quick internet search

How Much Does Health Insurance Cost? The Average Premium for Individual Coverage in 2011 was $183 per month, eHealth Study Finds / eHealth
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"U.S. healthcare is so expensive that records are broken even when cost increases slow.

According to a new report by Milliman, a global consulting and actuarial firm, the total cost of healthcare for the average family of four, if covered by a preferred provider organization, is now a record $19,393."

""In 2002, American families had healthcare costs of $9,235, and those costs have now doubled in fewer than nine years," said Lorraine Mayne, Milliman principal and consulting actuary, in a press release. "As costs continue to grow -- and even as the cost trend decelerates -- the total cost of care for American families constitutes a larger and larger portion of the household budget."

Take away costs paid by employers, and the employee's share of costs has still doubled. In 2010, the average employee paid $8,008 for his family's healthcare, up from $3,634 in 2002."
U.S. Health Care Costs Per Family More Than Doubled In Nine Years, Report Finds
 
Catawba said:
Which brings us full circle back to my suggestion of a living wage as an alternative to taxpayer supported welfare.
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How many small businesses do you suppose would go out of business if a "Living Wage" were enacted as law?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
How many small businesses do you suppose would go out of business if a "Living Wage" were enacted as law?


j-mac
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The same as the amount that would if they couldn't hire illegals and had to pay taxes.
 
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