• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

muciti said:
This statement is pretty misleading. Drugs and alcohol have sent countless people into financial ruin. And have helped keep countless people from climbing out of poverty. Because that article can name some people who do drugs and maintain wealth does not change these facts.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Some are able to function as users/abusers, some are not. And for some who can function, it's only a matter of time before it catches up to them. Does not change the fact that for many, use/abuse either spirals them into poverty or keeps them there.
 
Last edited:
kenvin said:
Foodstamps, Medicare and social security combined have approximatly 140 million people getting assistance.
Click to expand...

i think food stamps and social security are quite different.
 
kenvin said:
Foodstamps, Medicare and social security combined have approximatly 140 million people getting assistance.
Click to expand...

Yes 140 million getting assistance. (taking your word on the number i dont wanna look it up) However if you have a single mother with 5 kids on assistance, your only testing 1 person.
 
kenvin said:
Why they are both people who can't take care of themselves and need government money.
Click to expand...
People pay into social security via a special tax. That hardly qualifies as "can't take care of themselves", as they indeed have contributed to their own retirement.

Whether or not it is efficient, or enough, is an entirely different topic.
 
kenvin said:
I am right the fact that the strips are useless is why companies use labs
Click to expand...

Some companies also use the strips, so according to your logic, they are perfect. The strips could be a useful pre-screen.
 
Dilution will work in a home test but labs tend not to fall for it anymore so warm water will work.
Click to expand...

I am very confident that there are different strip tests out there. They have strips that can detect how much urine is a pool. You dont think they can make strips to determine if urine is in urine? Give it up man.
 
radcen said:
People pay into social security via a special tax. That hardly qualifies as "can't take care of themselves", as they indeed have contributed to their own retirement.

Whether or not it is efficient, or enough, is an entirely different topic.
Click to expand...

Social security is welfare just with a special tax and different name
 
muciti said:
I am very confident that there are different strip tests out there. They have strips that can detect how much urine is a pool. You dont think they can make strips to determine if urine is in urine? Give it up man.
Click to expand...

Hey I provided the link on how to beat them. Labs do a special test to check dilution strips don't.
 
buck said:
Some companies also use the strips, so according to your logic, they are perfect. The strips could be a useful pre-screen.
Click to expand...

What companies use home test strips and not a lab?
 
Neomalthusian said:
This link indicates 20% of welfare recipients have used in the last 12 months: http://www.ipr.northwestern.edu/jcp...ollack_danziger_jayakody_seefeldt_SRI2001.pdf
Click to expand...

Ah, but your link goes on to say: "only a small minority satisfy criteria for drug or alcohol dependence."

This link indicates use in general population is close to 9%: National survey shows a rise in illicit drug use from 2008 to 2010

Even if substance use prevalence rates were the same, it is reasonable to eliminate pr at least minimize the degree to which taxpayer dollars help people stay addicted, which obviously harms them.

Do you disagree, or just not care?
Click to expand...

I would argue that taxpayer dollars benefit everyone, especially those who receive on average $150,000 in annual tax breaks. Do you realize how much drugs a person can buy with that kind of money? Why single out just one group to test???
 
kenvin said:
Hey I provided the link on how to beat them. Labs do a special test to check dilution strips don't.
Click to expand...

You can buy strips with different sensitivity.
 
kenvin said:
Why they are both people who can't take care of themselves and need government money.
Click to expand...

No, one is a group that has paid into retirement insurance all their lives.
 
Catawba said:
Ah, but your link goes on to say: "only a small minority satisfy criteria for drug or alcohol dependence."
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. Dependence is a psychiatric diagnosis typically characterized by increasing tolerance and withdrawal. There are also abuse diagnoses. The important figure is the 20%.

I would argue that taxpayer dollars benefit everyone, especially those who receive on average $150,000 in annual tax breaks. Do you realize how much drugs a person can buy with that kind of money? Why single out just one group to test???
Click to expand...

I'm not hardcore advocate of drug testing all recipients as a matter of policy. But I do think a high BAC or hot UDS or other drug screen done in the normal course of provision of health care ought to be flagged for loss of public assistance, for example.

There are cheaper ways to filter out abuse and addiction from the welfare rolls than subjecting every recipient to the test, which might not be cost-effective.
 
Last edited:
kenvin said:
What companies use home test strips and not a lab?
Click to expand...

Specifically, which companies? I have no idea. Do a search though and you can find a lot of info. I have no doubt you'll continue to argue, though.

Anyway, here is a company that is marketing the test strips to businesses to use for their employees.

Rapid Exams can save your company dollars and down-time by using instant drug test rapids which will produce qualitative drug screening results 1-5 minutes. Employees get to work faster with rapid exams.
Click to expand...

here is an article about employee testing, and the test is testing to ensure it is actually urine - so you are just wrong on so many different things....

For example, a 4 Panel (COC/MAMP/THC/OPI) Integrated Test Cup with Adulteration is an FDA approved kit that tests for cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana, and opiates. It also contains a test for adulteration so that attempts to mask drug use will be uncovered. It can be purchased for between $6.85 and $8.15. The strip tests for pH, specific gravity, and oxidants in the urine specimen.
Click to expand...

Employee Drug Test Options | DrugTestStrips Articles
 
Last edited:
One of the myths about welfare previously linked above:

MYTH: Supporting welfare is a burden causing financial hardship to working class Americans.

FACT: Together, AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) and Food Stamps are by far the largest items of the welfare budget. Yet in 1992, AFDC formed only 1 percent of the combined state and federal budgets. Food stamps also took up 1 percent. (Library of Congress, Congressional Research Service, "Cash and Noncash Benefits for Persons with Limited Income: Eligibility Rules, Recipient and Expenditure Data, FY 1990-92," Report 93-832 EPW and earlier reports.) If you expand the definition of "welfare" to include all one-way transfers of benefits for which no services or repayment are required in exchange (such as student grants, school lunches and pensions for needy veterans) then welfare takes up only 12 percent of the combined budgets. (Sources: Library of Congress, Congressional Research Service, "Cash and Noncash Benefits for Persons with Limited Income: Eligibility Rules, Recipient and Expenditure Data, FY 1990-92," Report 93-832 EPW, and earlier reports; U.S. Bureau of the Census, Government Finances, series GF, No. 5, 1992.)

What is creating a financial hardship on working- and middle-class Americans? The rising percentage of American wealth gravitating to the top 1% of the population.

A counter-argument says that money given to wealthy citizens and corporations gets spent in ways that benefit the rest of the economy, and all people, including charitable donations. Yet money that is given to the very poor also gets spent: locally, in ways that benefit the grocer and the landlord and other small businesses. Money that goes to the wealthy often ends up being saved or invested overseas, circulated back into stocks that continue to drive up inflation, or spent on expensive houses that got built where affordable housing used to be.

In 1990, the poorest income group -- under $10,000 -- actually gave the highest share to charity: 5.5 percent. (Survey by Gallup Organization and Independent Sector, cited by Boston Globe, "U.S. Charities See Increase in Gifts," December 16, 1990)

From Inequality and Health
 
radcen said:
Is that the limit of the quality of your analytic abilities? Really?
Click to expand...

It is welfare. They get checks from taxes. Social security isn't a pension or 401 k. Current benefits are paid by current tax payers.
 
I think along with drug testing as a means to help people better themselves, it would only help/work with a renewed commitment from our government and social directors to actually help these people. It is not enough to just throw money at people to help them eat enough to survive. Our current system is set up so that you fill out paper work and meet with someone social worker who barely knows you and is killing time between 9 and 5 to get a check. We need to enable social workers to take an active part in helping recipients better themselves.
 
buck said:
Specifically, I have no idea. Do a search though and you can find a lot of info. I have no doubt you'll continue, though.

Anyway, here is a company that is marketing the test strips to businesses to use for their employees.

Rapid Exams can save your company dollars and down-time by using instant drug test rapids which will produce qualitative drug screening results 1-5 minutes. Employees get to work faster with rapid exams.

here is an article about employee testing, and it is testing to ensure it is actualyl urine - so you are just wrong on so many different things....




Employee Drug Test Options | DrugTestStrips Articles
Click to expand...

If these home test kits worked business would use them, but they don't. I know I have only ever done lab tests. Anyone here taken a non lab test for pre employment?
 
Catawba said:
One of the myths about welfare previously linked above:

MYTH: Supporting welfare is a burden causing financial hardship to working class Americans.

FACT: Together, AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) and Food Stamps are by far the largest items of the welfare budget. Yet in 1992, AFDC formed only 1 percent of the combined state and federal budgets. Food stamps also took up 1 percent. (Library of Congress, Congressional Research Service, "Cash and Noncash Benefits for Persons with Limited Income: Eligibility Rules, Recipient and Expenditure Data, FY 1990-92," Report 93-832 EPW and earlier reports.) If you expand the definition of "welfare" to include all one-way transfers of benefits for which no services or repayment are required in exchange (such as student grants, school lunches and pensions for needy veterans) then welfare takes up only 12 percent of the combined budgets. (Sources: Library of Congress, Congressional Research Service, "Cash and Noncash Benefits for Persons with Limited Income: Eligibility Rules, Recipient and Expenditure Data, FY 1990-92," Report 93-832 EPW, and earlier reports; U.S. Bureau of the Census, Government Finances, series GF, No. 5, 1992.)

What is creating a financial hardship on working- and middle-class Americans? The rising percentage of American wealth gravitating to the top 1% of the population.

A counter-argument says that money given to wealthy citizens and corporations gets spent in ways that benefit the rest of the economy, and all people, including charitable donations. Yet money that is given to the very poor also gets spent: locally, in ways that benefit the grocer and the landlord and other small businesses. Money that goes to the wealthy often ends up being saved or invested overseas, circulated back into stocks that continue to drive up inflation, or spent on expensive houses that got built where affordable housing used to be.

In 1990, the poorest income group -- under $10,000 -- actually gave the highest share to charity: 5.5 percent. (Survey by Gallup Organization and Independent Sector, cited by Boston Globe, "U.S. Charities See Increase in Gifts," December 16, 1990)

From Inequality and Health
Click to expand...

The problem Cawtaba is the information is not clear.

US Welfare Budget: US Budget Breakdown for FY12 - Charts
US Welfare Spending for 2012 - Charts
The Failed War on Poverty: Obama

When looked up, there are numbers all over the place. None of them match.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom