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Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

Neomalthusian said:
No, we weren't. That was your own spin.

Your suggestions to drug test any beneficiary of government policies is a complete non-sequitur. Some people need welfare for reasons directly related to their addiction, and the welfare ends up funding the addiction. That is directly harmful.
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Do you have a source to cite that shows this is anything but exceptions to the norm.
 
Well the fact is srips are useless. There is no chain of custody in a welfare office. The tests are easy to beat and can't even detect if its actually urine being tested. It's just pointless. The person just goes into the bathroom fills the cup with warm water and there you go.
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Your arent fooling a piss test with warm water. If a person passes a piss test with the strips, no harm done. If they fail it, then they go to the lab for a better test. That would keep costs down.
 
Neomalthusian said:
Just stop handing out money and resources to them. That respects their freedom. They're free to harm themselves. Tax revenues shouldn't be used to assist them in harming themselves.
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We do that with military spending every single day. And you still have provided no statistics that drug use is any higher by those on welfare than the general population that also benefit from taxpayer dollars.
 
Catawba said:
Do you have a source to cite that shows this is anything but exceptions to the norm.
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No one needs a source for these sorts of things. Check the SSA--substance dependence can be a qualifying condition for SSDI. Some people trade in their street drug addictions for habit forming psychiatric medications like benzodiazepines, amphetamines, sleeping pills, and painkillers. You're gonna sit back and demand proof of that one too aren't you? As though it's not common knowledge.

If you're interested in reading material beyond my comments, just google around and do some of your own reading instead of demanding linked proof to everything someone else says.
 
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muciti said:
Your arent fooling a piss test with warm water. If a person passes a piss test with the strips, no harm done. If they fail it, then they go to the lab for a better test. That would keep costs down.
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Correct you won't fool a lab test it would fool a strip test. Spending money and time on a meaningless test is dumb.
 
Neomalthusian said:
No one needs a source for these sorts of things. Check the SSA--substance dependence can be a qualifying condition for SSDI. Some people trade in their street drug addictions for habit forming psychiatric medications like benzodiazepines, amphetamines, sleeping pills, and painkillers. You're gonna sit back and demand proof of that one too aren't you? As though it's not common knowledge.

If you're interested in reading material beyond my comments, just google around and do some of your own reading instead of demanding linked proof to everything someone else says.
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From the source provided above:

"MYTH: People are poor because they are addicts or alcoholics.

FACT: Alcoholism and addiction are not limited to poor people: they are found at all levels of society, up to the Presidency. While epidemiologists debate whether alcoholism and addiction are most likely to be found in certain social classes or ethnic groups than others, they generally agree that they are more likely to be the result of the stresses of poverty than the primary cause. Something to remember, though, is that addiction often depends on availability. The addictions of poor people are limited by income. Compare this to physicians, for instance, who have the greatest exposure and easiest access to opiates: their addiction rates are higher than those of most if not all other professional groups, but they are not living in poverty."
 
This link indicates 20% of welfare recipients have used in the last 12 months: http://www.ipr.northwestern.edu/jcp...ollack_danziger_jayakody_seefeldt_SRI2001.pdf

This link indicates use in general population is close to 9%: http://www.samhsa.gov/newsroom/advisories/1109075503.aspx

Even if substance use prevalence rates were the same, it is reasonable to eliminate pr at least minimize the degree to which taxpayer dollars help people stay addicted, which obviously harms them.

Do you disagree, or just not care?
 
Catawba said:
From the source provided above:

"MYTH: People are poor because they are addicts or alcoholics.
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That was never my claim.

FACT: Alcoholism and addiction are not limited to poor people: they are found at all levels of society
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Irrelevant.

It's one thing to let people harm themselves by spending their own money to harm themselves.

It's another to give them the means with which to harm themselves.
 
muciti said:
It is not meaningless. Thats the point. Warm water is not going to fool anything, except maybe you it sounds like.
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Sure it will how will they know its water with out a test which the strip can't do.
 
"MYTH: People are poor because they are addicts or alcoholics.
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This statement is pretty misleading. Drugs and alcohol have sent countless people into financial ruin. And have helped keep countless people from climbing out of poverty. Because that article can name some people who do drugs and maintain wealth does not change these facts.
 
All urine tests are not too hard to cheat. My company does a hair test can't cheats, but much more expensive.
 
muciti said:
This statement is pretty misleading. Drugs and alcohol have sent countless people into financial ruin. And have helped keep countless people from climbing out of poverty. Because that article can name some people who do drugs and maintain wealth does not change these facts.
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Yes indeed.
 
muciti said:
The strip can detect that is actually urine.
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No it can't the strips only test for the presence of the drug not the solution the drugs may be in. That is one of the reasons companies use labs. That and chain of custody.
 
muciti said:
That would be much too extreme for this purpose.
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Well I'd the purpose is to find drug users in a group of people who likely know how to cheat that's the best way.
 
kenvin said:
I already did,but here you go again. The cost of a drug test is above $50. There are 140 million on some form of public assistance or another. So the math is simple. Billions. That's with only one test per year.

POM - Drug Testing
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I love the way you bring in almost half the population, and have them on welfare. It's hilarious. They'll drug test the babies too. I call bull**** on this whole thing, and the govt won't pay $50, they'll pay less because the company will be able to start a separate lab on the money brought in for this.
 
muciti said:
That would be much too extreme for this purpose.
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At the risk of being a "post Nazi", could you please use the "Reply With Quote" button when replying to specific quotes. I really like your responses, but find them hard to follow contextually if they're separated from the person to which you are responding. Especially so when only a portion of the quote is included.
 
radcen said:
At the risk of being a "post Nazi", could you please use the "Reply With Quote" button when replying to specific quotes. I really like your responses, but find them hard to follow contextually if they're separated from the person to which you are responding. Especially so when only a portion of the quote is included.
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Noted. And thank you.
 
American said:
I love the way you bring in almost half the population, and have them on welfare. It's hilarious. They'll drug test the babies too. I call bull**** on this whole thing, and the govt won't pay $50, they'll pay less because the company will be able to start a separate lab on the money brought in for this.
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Foodstamps, Medicare and social security combined have approximatly 140 million people getting assistance.
 
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