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Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

muciti said:
Those silly little strips are pretty damn accurate. What would be wrong with using them. Could easily make it so that if a person comes up hot on the strip they retest them with labcorp or someone like that. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
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If the strips were reliable companies would use them.
 
buck said:
I have zero problem with homeless people. However, even you would acknowledge that homeless people are typically on welfare.
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You have to have a physical address to claim welfare therefore homeless people do not receive welfare.
 
Ok maybe not most I will concede, since I am not going to try to look up any numbers.
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I would also think that many of these people who are on welfare because of hardships. Layoffs, inbetween jobs, cant find work ect., who are genuinely trying to find work and become self sufficient would have little problem pissing in a cup when they are at the office. You do what you have to to support your family.

It is much harder for a person to get off of welfare if they are on drugs. That in not arguable. Many employers require a drug test before you are hired. Part of our welfare system should be helping people become self sufficient. Part of becoming self sufficient is being clean. If for no other reason, it greatly increases your odds of employment.
 
muciti said:
I would also think that many of these people who are on welfare because of hardships. Layoffs, inbetween jobs, cant find work ect., who are genuinely trying to find work and become self sufficient would have little problem pissing in a cup when they are at the office. You do what you have to to support your family.

It is much harder for a person to get off of welfare if they are on drugs. That in not arguable. Many employers require a drug test before you are hired. Part of our welfare system should be helping people become self sufficient. Part of becoming self sufficient is being clean. If for no other reason, it greatly increases your odds of employment.
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I completely agree with you in concept. And I would be on the bandwagon with you if it werent for the fact that such regulations hedge away freedom one piece at a time. The end result in universal drug testing which opens the door for more intrusive regulations like gun control.
 
<<takes deep breath, pets cat, prepares for onslaught of personal attacks>>

There is absolutely no reason to test welfare recipients for drugs. The only people who should be tested routinely are cab drivers, pilots, heavy equipment operators, bus drivers and anyone else whose drug use might affect the safety of others.

The primary reason we have welfare is to keep people from starving to death. If a welfare recipient can manage to function on their allotment, why should anyone care if they use drugs?

<<clicks post reply, goes to clean litter box??
 
FreedomFromAll said:
What I said was that it is wrong to test people for drug use without any probable cause involved. One could say that all Americans benefit from taxes so everyone should be tested for drugs. That is where your reasoning leads us. If its good for one section to be tested for drugs then it is good for all sections of society to be tested for drugs. That is the same exact reasoning that you used.
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Yeah I was pointing out how ridiculous it all was by suggesting if you are going to test one segment of society that benefits from government policy you would have to test all those who benefit from government policy.

Its a silly notion, which is why none of the candidates are suggesting it.
 
The end result in universal drug testing which opens the door for more intrusive regulations like gun control.
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I dont think it does. The way I view these things is A. B. C. ect will help you become a self sufficient, tax paying US citizen. Our government can help do these things, and can help support you while you do them. In return you have to do X Y Z. Not because they want to infringe on your rights, or control your life but because they will help you. If a person is not willing to do the things needed to better their life, why help them? I know that sounds a bit cruel but realistically people need to do their part as well. They can't rely on someone else to do everything. Our welfare and social programs should help people better their lives and themselves. Giving them money and telling them to go away is a crappy half assed approach
 
If entitlements are in fact intended to get you back on your feet and not meant to be a permanent benefit..... Then if you do drugs you are being counter productive because there are many places that will not hire a drug user. All the more reason to enforce drug testing.

As far as the effect on the kids, yes if they fail a drug test you should take the kids. That parent is making an active decision to buy drugs with those benefits instead of supporting their children. Drugs are not cheap. I find it hard to believe you could support a drug habit without sacrificing the standard of living for your children.
 
muciti said:
Show some data to that effect. Or make any reasonable argument why what I presented before would not be acceptable.
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Well in my life every company drug test I have taken has been at a lab such as concentra. That is standard procedure. No one pees in a cup at the office. Those are the facts. The strips are not reliable.
 
As far as the effect on the kids, yes if they fail a drug test you should take the kids. That parent is making an active decision to buy drugs with those benefits instead of supporting their children. Drugs are not cheap. I find it hard to believe you could support a drug habit without sacrificing the standard of living for your children.
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Furthermore, I don't trust that a person who is high on drugs is capable of properly raising children.
 
Catawba said:
Yeah I was pointing out how ridiculous it all was by suggesting if you are going to test one segment of society that benefits from government policy you would have to test all those who benefit from government policy.

Its a silly notion, which is why none of the candidates are suggesting it.
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No cuts on capital gains tax, unless you're drug tested. How far would that fly?
 
Well in my life every company drug test I have taken has been at a lab such as concentra. That is standard procedure. No one pees in a cup at the office. Those are the facts. The strips are not reliable.
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So if businesses dont use them in your experience then they are not reliable? You can't be serious.

Your also ignoring the fact that I included that if the strip shows positive then you have them retest with a lab.

Where is the problem there? Its cheap, and for fairness sake it's accurate.
 
Catawba said:
You have to have a physical address to claim welfare therefore homeless people do not receive welfare.
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Yes. The homeless can and often do recieve welfare. I know first hand. There was always a certain percentage that once they got that check we wouldn't see them for a few days, as they would find some cheap place to live and spend all their money on booze (they knew they weren't allowed at the shelter while high or drunk). After the money was gone, they'd come back.
 
Catawba said:
We were not talking about drug testing for people that benefit from government policy?
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No, we weren't. That was your own spin.

Your suggestions to drug test any beneficiary of government policies is a complete non-sequitur. Some people need welfare for reasons directly related to their addiction, and the welfare ends up funding the addiction. That is directly harmful.
 
buck said:
The average price is meaningless. The government would obviously have a lot of tests per year and would qualify for the lowest rates, most likely in the $25.00 range. The $65.00 rate / test was for companies that only get 5-10 tests per year.
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Yes, the government is famous for it's fiscal responsibility and for bargaining for the best possible price. :lamo

And that doesn't even begin to address the time and cost of its own bureaucracy in implementing the program. I mean, really, show me a government program that stays lean and mean.
 
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muciti said:
So if businesses dont use them in your experience then they are not reliable? You can't be serious.

Your also ignoring the fact that I included that if the strip shows positive then you have them retest with a lab.

Where is the problem there? Its cheap, and for fairness sake it's accurate.
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http://www.drugteststrips.com/FAQ-p-6.html#accurate_q2

Well even thw drug test supplier admits the tests should be confirmed in a lab and are do not hold up in court. They give both false positives and false negatives.
 
grip said:
No cuts on capital gains tax, unless you're drug tested. How far would that fly?
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About as far as drug testing poor people is going to fly.
 
muciti said:
Which is why when there is a negative test, you retest with the lab. Problem solved. Your continuing to focus problem your perceiving with a clear solution.
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Well the fact is srips are useless. There is no chain of custody in a welfare office. The tests are easy to beat and can't even detect if its actually urine being tested. It's just pointless. The person just goes into the bathroom fills the cup with warm water and there you go.
 
buck said:
Yes. The homeless can and often do recieve welfare. I know first hand. There was always a certain percentage that once they got that check we wouldn't see them for a few days, as they would find some cheap place to live and spend all their money on booze (they knew they weren't allowed at the shelter while high or drunk). After the money was gone, they'd come back.
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The homeless can get food stamps, and most states have a 3 month limit for that, and most have mental problems.

What do you suggest we do with the homeless if they are found guilty of drinking booze or smoking a joint. Should they be fined, or thrown in jail do you think???
 
Catawba said:
What do you suggest we do with the homeless if they are found guilty of drinking booze or smoking a joint. Should they be fined, or thrown in jail do you think???
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Just stop handing out money and resources to them. That respects their freedom. They're free to harm themselves. Tax revenues shouldn't be used to assist them in harming themselves.
 
Catawba said:
and most have mental problems.
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You are wrong again. The highest estimates I have seen of homeless w/ mental illness was one third. While I don't personally believe it is that high, it is clear that "most" homeless do not have mental problems.
 
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