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Thread: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    As far as I can tell from the piss tests I had to take to get a job in the civilian world they do not have someone stand there and watch you.
    The jobs I have had since getting out of the military all required drug tests before starting work and random ones during the time (usually I got hit by a random twice a year). You are correct in that they don't watch unless you are picked specifically for a drug test due to suspicion of using drugs.

    A lot different than the meat-gazing days in the Army

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If employers weren't responsible for healthcare coverage then I'd see your point.

    they shouldn't be.

    however, drugs are but one component of an unhealthy lifestyle, and other more significant contributors to overall poor health are not tested for at time of hire.

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Please, dude. Due process and "innocent until proven guilty"...those have NOTHING to do with drug testing anybody. Even the 4th amendment is a stretch. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a governing body deciding that those who receive benefits (typically mothers of young children) should be and remain drug free as a stipulation of receiving and staying on government assistance....if done properly, randomly, and without advanced warning. If somebody had thought to piss test my idiot mother before we qualified for food stamps and welfare perhaps I would have ended up in an environment where that money actually went towards clothing, feeding, and providing medical care to me, the minor child. Instead, everything we received was used for drugs or traded for drugs for my mother...and I, the minor child, suffered for it.

    I'm not the only kid that happened to. My mother met her dealer and many of her drug-using buddies at the government office where she applied for and picked up her benefits...and all of 'em had children living much the same way I did. Sure, the majority of welfare parents aren't drug users. But if the justification for providing benefits is a societal obligation to the children of the poverty-stricken we're missing a significant chunk of children by not providing investigative social services to monitor the environment in which the children live. That should include checking for the existence of drug use, abuse, living conditions, etc. It is far too easy in this system for children to continue living in neglect because the system isn't really built to do much beyond cut checks.

    Government welfare benefits are not guaranteed to you (maybe for seniors, but that's a different story entirely). You have to qualify for them based on family size, income, and/or ability. Why is it such a huge stretch to demand that you also be law abiding and drug-free to qualify?
    Your assumption is a bit ludicrous. You think that a drug addict is going to get clean just to collect a few hundred bucks worth of foot stamps? Suddenly, if she has to take a drug test, she's going to turn into June Cleaver? The more likely scenario is that she instead resorts to petty theft and/or panhandling and/or prostitution.

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Anyone with advance notice can pass a piss test. It isn't hard.My best fried passes his piss tests all the time.All it takes is enough time to drive to a friend or relatives house and collect urine from a friend or relative who does not do drugs and keeping that urine warm and concealed. If they made these welfare recipients all go down the welfare office to collect their welfare and food stamps on a regular bases and randomly test them on the spot I guarantee the results would be a lot higher.
    In Texas, faking a drug test, using someone else's urine, or using a Whizinator or other device is a felony, and means prison, if caught.
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Your assumption is a bit ludicrous. You think that a drug addict is going to get clean just to collect a few hundred bucks worth of foot stamps? Suddenly, if she has to take a drug test, she's going to turn into June Cleaver? The more likely scenario is that she instead resorts to petty theft and/or panhandling and/or prostitution.
    June Cleaver was a crackhead? Say it ain't so.
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Let me add something else. If legislators in Texas had to take drug tests, George Bush would have been doing time in jail instead of sitting in the Oval Office. His coke use, while a congressman, is legendary, here in Texas.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Anyone with advance notice can pass a piss test. It isn't hard.My best fried passes his piss tests all the time.All it takes is enough time to drive to a friend or relatives house and collect urine from a friend or relative who does not do drugs and keeping that urine warm and concealed. If they made these welfare recipients all go down the welfare office to collect their welfare and food stamps on a regular bases and randomly test them on the spot I guarantee the results would be a lot higher.
    Interesting. I wonder how you know this?
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Please, dude. Due process and "innocent until proven guilty"...those have NOTHING to do with drug testing anybody. Even the 4th amendment is a stretch. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a governing body deciding that those who receive benefits (typically mothers of young children) should be and remain drug free as a stipulation of receiving and staying on government assistance....if done properly, randomly, and without advanced warning. If somebody had thought to piss test my idiot mother before we qualified for food stamps and welfare perhaps I would have ended up in an environment where that money actually went towards clothing, feeding, and providing medical care to me, the minor child. Instead, everything we received was used for drugs or traded for drugs for my mother...and I, the minor child, suffered for it.

    I'm not the only kid that happened to. My mother met her dealer and many of her drug-using buddies at the government office where she applied for and picked up her benefits...and all of 'em had children living much the same way I did. Sure, the majority of welfare parents aren't drug users. But if the justification for providing benefits is a societal obligation to the children of the poverty-stricken we're missing a significant chunk of children by not providing investigative social services to monitor the environment in which the children live. That should include checking for the existence of drug use, abuse, living conditions, etc. It is far too easy in this system for children to continue living in neglect because the system isn't really built to do much beyond cut checks.

    Government welfare benefits are not guaranteed to you (maybe for seniors, but that's a different story entirely). You have to qualify for them based on family size, income, and/or ability. Why is it such a huge stretch to demand that you also be law abiding and drug-free to qualify?
    With all due respect, you're rationalizing. You're taking an individual anecdote and trying to cast a blanket over all of society... or all of those in society you distrust and/or dislike. They have everything to do with it. Everything to do with who we are as a society and as a nation and what we claim to believe in. We either believe in these concepts of justice or we don't. Period.

    You are actually arguing two things here, without realizing them, I think. One, you are arguing that the government should step in and approve the living conditions of ALL citizens, welfare or not, as there are plenty of people outside the system that do the same thing. "For the children's sake", as former President Clinton might say. The ends justifies the means, but only for certain people... those other people... not me.

    Two, what you... and others who are pro-testing... are saying is that our sense of justice, and what we claim to believe regarding our sense of justice when it applies to us, is for sale. We demand our rights as individuals against unwarranted violations due process be respected, yet we are unwilling to allow the same respect to others who are also not individually and specifically suspected of any crime. Why? Because money is involved? Sorry, that's just repugnant. That's hypocrisy of the lowest order.

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If employers weren't responsible for healthcare coverage then I'd see your point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    they shouldn't be.

    however, drugs are but one component of an unhealthy lifestyle, and other more significant contributors to overall poor health are not tested for at time of hire.
    If employers can regulate drug use because it affects the health of the employee and the employer is responsible for providing insurance, then they should be able to control almost everything about a person's life, then. What food they eat, how much they work out, how they drive, their sexual habits, etc. There's really not very many things we do that do not affect our health in some way.

    I will agree, employers shouldn't be involved in insurance. We should have universal public healthcare. But giving some people (the ones with money) the power to control so much of others' (those without money) lives is just plain wrong. It's contrary to America's ideals of freedom.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Ron Paul has the answer: End the war on drugs.

    The war on drugs isn't working. It is causing more problems than it solves. It is a bad policy that is filling our prisons with addicts and letting real criminals skip out early because there isn't room for them. It is the cause of a shooting war on our southern border.

    Time to end it. past time, in fact.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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