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Thread: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    I fail to see the reason for the outrage over drug testing prior or during receiving welfare.

    You aren't mandated to take welfare, so if you don't like the rules associated with it, don't accept it.
    You aren't mandated to run for office either, so what's the problem with also drug testing politicians?

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    no one should be drug tested without a warrant, whether for work or welfare.

    Indiana's legislative priorities have been embarrassing in recent years. cutting education, anti-labor, and anti-lower socioeconomic class policies; the list goes on. it's not difficult to guess which side is running the show. i'm still an independent, but i will admit that Republicans represent my own views less and less. currently, they are getting ready to ram through right to work legislation with no amendments and little debate. if they do that, i might stop considering the Republican party for a vote at any level until it changes.

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    You aren't mandated to run for office either, so what's the problem with also drug testing politicians?
    I have no problem with it.

    I just like getting a license to drive. There are rules, regulations, and statues that come with the territory. Again, driving is optional.

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    no one should be drug tested without a warrant, whether for work or welfare.

    Indiana's legislative priorities have been embarrassing in recent years. cutting education, anti-labor, and anti-lower socioeconomic class policies; the list goes on. it's not difficult to guess which side is running the show. i'm still an independent, but i will admit that Republicans represent my own views less and less. currently, they are getting ready to ram through right to work legislation with no amendments and little debate. if they do that, i might stop considering the Republican party for a vote at any level until it changes.
    If employers weren't responsible for healthcare coverage then I'd see your point.
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Not word one about due process, 4th Amendment rights against unreasonable search & seizure, innocent until proven guilty, etc. And by many of the same people who decry the government doing anything that might be used against them without due process. We're all just a nation of big dumb hypocrites, aren't we?

    And spare me the comparisons with other jobs. If it's a private employer, the same standards wouldn't necessarily apply in much the same way that freedom of speech as guaranteed in the 1st Amendment applies to government restrictions, not private enterprise restrictions. If the employees are government, that preemptive testing is wrong, too.
    Please, dude. Due process and "innocent until proven guilty"...those have NOTHING to do with drug testing anybody. Even the 4th amendment is a stretch. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a governing body deciding that those who receive benefits (typically mothers of young children) should be and remain drug free as a stipulation of receiving and staying on government assistance....if done properly, randomly, and without advanced warning. If somebody had thought to piss test my idiot mother before we qualified for food stamps and welfare perhaps I would have ended up in an environment where that money actually went towards clothing, feeding, and providing medical care to me, the minor child. Instead, everything we received was used for drugs or traded for drugs for my mother...and I, the minor child, suffered for it.

    I'm not the only kid that happened to. My mother met her dealer and many of her drug-using buddies at the government office where she applied for and picked up her benefits...and all of 'em had children living much the same way I did. Sure, the majority of welfare parents aren't drug users. But if the justification for providing benefits is a societal obligation to the children of the poverty-stricken we're missing a significant chunk of children by not providing investigative social services to monitor the environment in which the children live. That should include checking for the existence of drug use, abuse, living conditions, etc. It is far too easy in this system for children to continue living in neglect because the system isn't really built to do much beyond cut checks.

    Government welfare benefits are not guaranteed to you (maybe for seniors, but that's a different story entirely). You have to qualify for them based on family size, income, and/or ability. Why is it such a huge stretch to demand that you also be law abiding and drug-free to qualify?
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Please, dude. Due process and "innocent until proven guilty"...those have NOTHING to do with drug testing anybody. Even the 4th amendment is a stretch. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a governing body deciding that those who receive benefits (typically mothers of young children) should be and remain drug free as a stipulation of receiving and staying on government assistance....if done properly, randomly, and without advanced warning. If somebody had thought to piss test my idiot mother before we qualified for food stamps and welfare perhaps I would have ended up in an environment where that money actually went towards clothing, feeding, and providing medical care to me, the minor child. Instead, everything we received was used for drugs or traded for drugs for my mother...and I, the minor child, suffered for it.

    I'm not the only kid that happened to. My mother met her dealer and many of her drug-using buddies at the government office where she applied for and picked up her benefits...and all of 'em had children living much the same way I did. Sure, the majority of welfare parents aren't drug users. But if the justification for providing benefits is a societal obligation to the children of the poverty-stricken we're missing a significant chunk of children by not providing investigative social services to monitor the environment in which the children live. That should include checking for the existence of drug use, abuse, living conditions, etc. It is far too easy in this system for children to continue living in neglect because the system isn't really built to do much beyond cut checks.

    Government welfare benefits are not guaranteed to you (maybe for seniors, but that's a different story entirely). You have to qualify for them based on family size, income, and/or ability. Why is it such a huge stretch to demand that you also be law abiding and drug-free to qualify?
    A very good point. I say drugs more than any other factor is why the cycle of poverty in our poor neighborhoods is so hard to break. Drug use just sucks up someone's will and passion to do much of anything else.

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Please, dude. Due process and "innocent until proven guilty"...those have NOTHING to do with drug testing anybody. Even the 4th amendment is a stretch. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a governing body deciding that those who receive benefits (typically mothers of young children) should be and remain drug free as a stipulation of receiving and staying on government assistance....if done properly, randomly, and without advanced warning. If somebody had thought to piss test my idiot mother before we qualified for food stamps and welfare perhaps I would have ended up in an environment where that money actually went towards clothing, feeding, and providing medical care to me, the minor child. Instead, everything we received was used for drugs or traded for drugs for my mother...and I, the minor child, suffered for it.

    I'm not the only kid that happened to. My mother met her dealer and many of her drug-using buddies at the government office where she applied for and picked up her benefits...and all of 'em had children living much the same way I did. Sure, the majority of welfare parents aren't drug users. But if the justification for providing benefits is a societal obligation to the children of the poverty-stricken we're missing a significant chunk of children by not providing investigative social services to monitor the environment in which the children live. That should include checking for the existence of drug use, abuse, living conditions, etc. It is far too easy in this system for children to continue living in neglect because the system isn't really built to do much beyond cut checks.

    Government welfare benefits are not guaranteed to you (maybe for seniors, but that's a different story entirely). You have to qualify for them based on family size, income, and/or ability. Why is it such a huge stretch to demand that you also be law abiding and drug-free to qualify?
    I present to everyone the supposedly non-class warfare of the modern Republican party. Demonize the poor, use anecdotal evidence, attack the needy.
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I present to everyone the supposedly non-class warfare of the modern Republican party. Demonize the poor, use anecdotal evidence, attack the needy.
    You're seeing something that isn't there. First of all, I am not a member of the Republican party. I am not claiming to respresent the Republican party or claiming that they represent me. This is my stance. It is not party-dependent.

    Secondly, I very clearly state "the majority of welfare parents aren't drug users". I also never attacked the needy. I advocated for the children of drug users who live in poverty. I then go on to describe a real (and significant) problem for portion of children living in poverty. I also never criticized, demonized, or insulted the poor. I never said that drug use is a problem specific to the poor. I never said that every poor parent is a bad parent. I said the system is broken if it doesn't do more to protect children in poverty.

    From childwelfare.gov:

    Parental substance abuse is reported to be a contributing factor for between one- and two-thirds of maltreated children in the child welfare system.29 Research supports the association between substance abuse and child maltreatment.30 For example:

    A retrospective study of maltreatment experience in Chicago found children whose parents abused alcohol and other drugs were almost three times likelier to be abused and more than four times likelier to be neglected than children of parents who were not substance abusers.31
    A Department of Health and Human Services study found all types of maltreatment, and particularly neglect, to be more likely in alcohol-abusing families than in nonalcohol-abusing families.32
    So how is stating something that is true "demonizing" or "attacking"?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    My husband administers military tests often - he knows the tricks and is present in the restroom for those in suspicion.

    So your husband is the NCO designated to be the meat gazer where he was stationed at. When I was at Fort Hood the company I everyone in the company was in was piss tested every month due to the high amount of soldiers who pissed hot and the designated meat gazer was in the latrine to watch everyone who took the test. As far as I can tell from the piss tests I had to take to get a job in the civilian world they do not have someone stand there and watch you.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 01-30-12 at 11:00 AM.
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I present to everyone the supposedly non-class warfare of the modern Republican party. Demonize the poor, use anecdotal evidence, attack the needy.
    I present to everyone classic ignorance.

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