Page 20 of 44 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 434

Thread: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

  1. #191
    Educator Paratrooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Al
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 12:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    888
    The it cost too much argument is bogus to me. How many grant dollars do we give to colleges to teach parrots how to talk, monkeys how to sign language, to study ant colonies etc?

    Clearly the government has the money, it's about priorities. If you want to get an entitlement check every month that comes from citizens taxes you should have to take a drug test to prove you are not blowing it on drugs. These are benefits are a privilege not a right. If that's too hard there is a simple solution, don't collect a check from the government.

    The cost certainly hasn't prevented those of us in the military from getting drug tested multiple times per year.

  2. #192
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    The it cost too much argument is bogus to me. How many grant dollars do we give to colleges to teach parrots how to talk, monkeys how to sign language, to study ant colonies etc?

    Clearly the government has the money, it's about priorities. If you want to get an entitlement check every month that comes from citizens taxes you should have to take a drug test to prove you are not blowing it on drugs. These are benefits are a privilege not a right. If that's too hard there is a simple solution, don't collect a check from the government.

    The cost certainly hasn't prevented those of us in the military from getting drug tested multiple times per year.
    And what are we prepared to do about the children of these positive testers? You can't cut them off from these programs because mom smokes pot. So. Are we going to take their children away? Where shall we put them? How much will that cost? Although, if someone tests positive for heroine, as an example, then we really should be taking away their children. I think this is one problem nobody wants to touch...
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  3. #193
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    03-30-12 @ 08:21 PM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    1,667
    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I know. Decrease the cost of the test and decrease the percentage of people tested and guess what... Magically still billions.

    Anyway, do a search. Yahoo drug testing costs. It's really not complicated.

    Edit:

    I did another search and found one even cheaper $25.00 vs $35.00 based on volume. Rather flies in the face of your claim that the government can't negotiate a lower price, no?
    So they just separate cost if test and cost of collection. So 25 for the test plus up to 35 for collection. Bait and switch. Still billions.

  4. #194
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    And what are we prepared to do about the children of these positive testers? You can't cut them off from these programs because mom smokes pot. So. Are we going to take their children away? Where shall we put them? How much will that cost? Although, if someone tests positive for heroine, as an example, then we really should be taking away their children. I think this is one problem nobody wants to touch...
    I will agree that without answering these questions, testing is pointless.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #195
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    So they just separate cost if test and cost of collection. So 25 for the test plus up to 35 for collection. Bait and switch. Still billions.
    Not quite what they said.

    They indicated that their charges are primarily based on the number of tests per year. Another, smaller factor to their charge is how much the collection site charges. So, the cost for a test - this includes the collection - can be anywhere from $25.00 to $65.00 depending on how many tests are done/year. I would assume the government would be in the $25.00 range based on the number of tests. I also assume the government could probably negotiate that down further based on volume. lastly, you are assuming that the governemnt is paying. If I recall correctly, in FL, the cost of the test was expected to come out of the benefits.
    Last edited by buck; 02-01-12 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #196
    Anti political parties
    FreedomFromAll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Mexico USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,063

    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Because if an individual is taking compensation from another group of people, those people have the right to attach certain conditions to be satisfied prior to releasing the compensation. This goes for both welfare recipients and tax payers as well as employees and employers.

    It is one of the reasons that conservatives tend to say that as government grows, the individual's rights decrease.
    Drug testing as a condition of receiving compensation being justified, opens doors for other conditions. Until conditional requirements make it difficult for the actual people that need a small push to recover from a situation are unable to receive any help. It is obvious that the push to drug test welfare reciepants is based on the idea that drug testing will remove drug users from the system. It is a way of regulating who can and who cannot receive aid. But it is a broad regulation that ignores the simple concept of liberty. The rule assumes guilt of everyone. I would be more willing to support drug testing of people that have been convicted of being involved with drugs in some shape of form.

    But in the end I just see as you said just more government control. And I also see it ass wasting more money in a system that already wastes money.

    In New Mexico if you receive TANF (cash assistance) you may only receive it for 60 months in a lifetime. Or you can apply for a one time lump sum. If you receive TANF and/or food assistance you are automatically enrolled in a program called New Mexico Works. This program requires you to apply for employment but first you must attend life skills classes. You may also receive training. But either way you are required to apply for work a certain number of applications must be filled out and turned in every week. You are also required to give a certain amount of hours of being employed (20-40 hours I dont remember the actual amount). And if you are unable to find a job you must volunteer at a charity of your choice. That charity must be approved by NMW and you must get signatures Etc. If you do not comply then you loose TANF foodstamps Etc. for a certain amount of time you are banned from the system.

    I know some pretty lazy people that cannot meet the requirements of New Mexico Works. And they were banned. I also know some people that quite the program and just got a job since it was easier. I dont know what requirements other states have but at least here you dont get easy money. And most jobs UA these days so I would imagine that a dirty UA is going to be addressed by your case worker at some point anyways.

    I am support making assistance available but design that system as an aid to become a viable member of society. If you need assistance make it conditional on the recipient working for that assistance. And if they dont comply ban then from the system and require them to jump through hurdles if they want to be unbanned.

    I just think that drug testing alone wont really achieve anything. SOme people will simply stop using drugs while receiving assistance. Thats great but if they are still just as lazy the drug test did not achieve anything of worth.

  7. #197
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    03-30-12 @ 08:21 PM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    1,667
    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Not quite what they said.

    They indicated that their charges are primarily based on the number of tests per year. Another, smaller factor to their charge is how much the collection site charges. So, the cost for a test - this includes the collection - can be anywhere from $25.00 to $65.00 depending on how many tests are done/year. I would assume the government would be in the $25.00 range based on the number of tests. I also assume the government could probably negotiate that down further based on volume. lastly, you are assuming that the governemnt is paying. If I recall correctly, in FL, the cost of the test was expected to come out of the benefits.
    So the price isn't 25 but depends. From 25 to 65. The average will fall in the middle. So the average price will be around 40. That is billions and doesn't even test half the pool.

  8. #198
    Sage
    Kreton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Last Seen
    11-13-17 @ 08:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    6,118

    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    And what are we prepared to do about the children of these positive testers? You can't cut them off from these programs because mom smokes pot. So. Are we going to take their children away? Where shall we put them? How much will that cost? Although, if someone tests positive for heroine, as an example, then we really should be taking away their children. I think this is one problem nobody wants to touch...
    These are things that need to be addressed. Rather than just giving a little bit of money and food to our country's poor, we need to be helping them become self sufficient. Getting them off of and keeping them off of drugs is a positive step but it isnt going to solve all of our problems. While drug testing and other programs would cost us money don't pretend that it would really be the biggest waste of money out there.

  9. #199
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    So the price isn't 25 but depends. From 25 to 65. The average will fall in the middle. So the average price will be around 40. That is billions and doesn't even test half the pool.
    The average price is meaningless. The government would obviously have a lot of tests per year and would qualify for the lowest rates, most likely in the $25.00 range. The $65.00 rate / test was for companies that only get 5-10 tests per year.

  10. #200
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    In New Mexico if you receive TANF (cash assistance) you may only receive it for 60 months in a lifetime. Or you can apply for a one time lump sum. If you receive TANF and/or food assistance you are automatically enrolled in a program called New Mexico Works. This program requires you to apply for employment but first you must attend life skills classes. You may also receive training. But either way you are required to apply for work a certain number of applications must be filled out and turned in every week. You are also required to give a certain amount of hours of being employed (20-40 hours I dont remember the actual amount). And if you are unable to find a job you must volunteer at a charity of your choice. That charity must be approved by NMW and you must get signatures Etc. If you do not comply then you loose TANF foodstamps Etc. for a certain amount of time you are banned from the system.
    On the surface I like that idea much more then drug testing. I wonder how it really works in practice. In Illinois, I used to help out at a homeless shelter, and the homeless had it down to a science in order to get around (not actually do) the requirements the state had and would still receive the benefits.
    Last edited by buck; 02-01-12 at 01:56 PM.

Page 20 of 44 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •