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Thread: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

  1. #111
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you seek some form of government assistance, you're admitting that you can't support yourself and your family.
    This is not a question, it is a false premise. You overlook the disabled, the old, women with dependent children, and billionaires who make most of their money from investments.

    Oh here is your question, based on your false premise above.

    Does the government not have an interest, in you telling the truth and that the well fair of the individuals (especially the children) is in good state?
    No more than in our interest in our legislators telling the truth and the welfare of the individuals (especially the children) that are affected by their policies.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    This is not a question, it is a false premise. You overlook the disabled, the old, women with dependent children, and billionaires who make most of their money from investments.

    Oh here is your question, based on your false premise above.

    No more than in our interest in our legislators telling the truth and the welfare of the individuals (especially the children) that are affected by their policies.
    Of course it's a question, you just refuse to answer it because it's actually a reasonable position, that deflects from your attempt at character assassination and usual mud slinging.

    We aren't talking about people on social insurance, aka disability, retirement.

    We're talking about regular people, who admit they can't support their family without emergency government services (aka welfare, food stamps, children's medicaid, etc).
    Does the government not have a right to make sure these people are, telling the truth and that these people in good state?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Of course it's a question, you just refuse to answer it because it's actually a reasonable position, that deflects from your attempt at character assassination and usual mud slinging.

    We aren't talking about people on social insurance, aka disability, retirement.

    We're talking about regular people, who admit they can't support their family without emergency government services (aka welfare, food stamps, children's medicaid, etc).
    Does the government not have a right to make sure these people are, telling the truth and that these people in good state?
    Well who exactly are you talking about, the 50% of the country that average $15,800? You want to drug test them but not the legislators that are wasting way more taxpayer dollars on the military industrial complex and more tax cuts for the rich??

    Really? You don't mind kids living in poverty so the rich can be richer, but you want to spend taxpayer money monitoring people's homes to make sure someone making $15,000 doesn't smoke a joint now and then??? Really?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #114
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Well who exactly are you talking about, the 50% of the country that average $15,800? You want to drug test them but not the legislators that are wasting way more taxpayer dollars on the military industrial complex and more tax cuts for the rich??
    Nope, I don't want to drug test them.
    I said home visits.

    That's why you called me a jack booted thug, remember?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Really? You don't mind kids living in poverty so the rich can be richer, but you want to spend taxpayer money monitoring people's homes to make sure someone making $15,000 doesn't smoke a joint now and then??? Really?
    I didn't say that either.
    A home visit /= monitoring peoples homes.
    It has nothing to do with drug use either.

    You still haven't answered the question.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #115
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Well who exactly are you talking about, the 50% of the country that average $15,800? You want to drug test them but not the legislators that are wasting way more taxpayer dollars on the military industrial complex and more tax cuts for the rich??

    Really? You don't mind kids living in poverty so the rich can be richer, but you want to spend taxpayer money monitoring people's homes to make sure someone making $15,000 doesn't smoke a joint now and then??? Really?
    I oppose condoning any behavior that enables an unsuccessful parent to continue to be unsuccessful. . . .drugs are not cheap or free. Not even weed. And if one manages to get some for free in exchange for other activies then perhaps they need to turn that business mind towards actually supporting their family and not their habit.

    I'm much less concerned about the private drug-related conduct of parents who are providing for their children adequately . . . but in those cases it's still fit to intervene when they start to neglect their children.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Based on the results in Florida, this seems to be another non-problem that Republicans are fixating on to curry favor with their base. Why make everyone who applies for assistance pay for this humiliating test when it appears that it's less of a problem among this population than it is in the population as a whole?

    It seems to me that the real problem here is with those who have the biased perception that people who are going through tough times and need some assistance must be drug-addled parasites.
    I don't' have a biased perception at all, I have a grip on reality. I am not for the drug testing program. I agree that we shouldn't arbitrarily test people. I am very much against the way we deal with the drug problem via the so-called war on drugs. I am specifically addressing that we have a bigger drug problem in poor neighborhoods in which a lot of people are necessarily on public assistance. The drug problem in these communities is a plague that keeps a lot of good people from getting off assistance and doing more with their lives. It is simply a fact. The cycle of poverty and abuse has a new ally in modern times and it is drugs. Tessa's life was greatly affected by this problem and I would like to figure out how to make things better. I don't think ALL people who are going through tough times are drug-addled parasites but there are far too many that are. And even if they aren't on public assistance they are part of the problem. Their is a certain responsibility that people who have been given aid should have to society. How do we help them live up to that reponsibilty?

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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Give it up, Cat will NEVER answer questions that fly in the face of his ideology.


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  8. #118
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I oppose condoning any behavior that enables an unsuccessful parent to continue to be unsuccessful. . . .drugs are not cheap or free. Not even weed. And if one manages to get some for free in exchange for other activies then perhaps they need to turn that business mind towards actually supporting their family and not their habit.

    I'm much less concerned about the private drug-related conduct of parents who are providing for their children adequately . . . but in those cases it's still fit to intervene when they start to neglect their children.
    You make it sound like straight and sober parents never neglect their children.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    I don't' have a biased perception at all, I have a grip on reality. I am not for the drug testing program. I agree that we shouldn't arbitrarily test people. I am very much against the way we deal with the drug problem via the so-called war on drugs. I am specifically addressing that we have a bigger drug problem in poor neighborhoods in which a lot of people are necessarily on public assistance. The drug problem in these communities is a plague that keeps a lot of good people from getting off assistance and doing more with their lives. It is simply a fact. The cycle of poverty and abuse has a new ally in modern times and it is drugs. Tessa's life was greatly affected by this problem and I would like to figure out how to make things better. I don't think ALL people who are going through tough times are drug-addled parasites but there are far too many that are. And even if they aren't on public assistance they are part of the problem. Their is a certain responsibility that people who have been given aid should have to society. How do we help them live up to that reponsibilty?
    Well, again, the actual data from Florida suggests that there is *less* drug use -- not more -- in the population seeking assistance than there is in the population as a whole.

    Not sure what your position is as you seem to be arguing both sides.

  10. #120
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    Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients suffers setback

    I have issues about the inconsistency behind testing welfare recipients for illegal drugs.

    If it is aimed to prevent substance abuse, then they also need to test for licit substances such as alcohol as well. If it is because they do not want public money spent on drugs, then all recipients of public money.. including the lawmakers should be tested as well. If it is because they do not want parents abusing drugs.. then why single out welfare recipients only (and again why only illicit but not licit)? If it is aimed solely to prevent misappropriation of welfare money, then they need to prevent welfare recipients from using welfare funds to buy flat screens, video games, movie tickets, fancy rims for their car, and any other discretionary spending as well.

    IMO here is what should be done to insure that welfare money only gets spent for living expenses, it also will prevent the money from being used to support substance abuse (both licit and illicit) - from a previous thread on the topic regarding Florida's law:

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Would it be that hard to issue a plastic card or set up a welfare account that could only be used for food, housing expenses, transportation costs, and medical treatment?

    Is there a potential for abuse[?] -always and in all things, but not compared to just sending a check in the mail which can then be converted to cash with ease. This way welfare money can be used strictly to insure an individuals or a family's welfare. If they have other money that they earn, there is no way to really control how that gets spent, other than enforcing income reporting measures and insuring that the amount of assistance available is tied to that (ideally on a month by month basis). This leaves money under the table, side jobs, illegal income ect. which we cannot control all that much, but controlling where the welfare money goes, and the limit of money according to legitimate reported income would account for the majority of recipients, and take care of a lions share of waste and inappropriate allocation of funds.
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