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Oakland police arresting about 100 protesters

Wake said:
This kind of scenario annoys me. I just now saw on the news that 50 OWS members were just arrested for breaking into a government building and destroying property. The thing about liberals in general is that they say you can't blame the OWS for any of the numerous acts of violence, YET, if the TP were to have 100 members rampage through the city, you'll see these same liberals banter about it. Utter hypocrisy.
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I've defended the OWS a few times on this forum, never had to with the Tea Party (now that's ironic also). I support anyone that peacefully protests even when I disagree with what they say. I have never excused OWS violent actions however. Unless that "violent act" was them sitting down and not moving. Note the quotes around violent act there. The reason I put quotes is because for me sitting down and not moving is not a violent act...but there are members here that believe that it is. *shrug* Go figure.
 
Catawba said:
Here is how FFA describes the OWS:
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The main message that is heard from the occupy movement indeed says that our government is beyond fixing, because they insist that corporation are calling the shots. Havent you been paying attention? Why do you think that I have been suggesting that Liberals start their own movement?

the basic fact that all of the occupy groups are calling for participatory democracy is proof solid that occupiers are calling for replacement of our system. In order for the US to have the participatory democracy that the occupiers are insisting on we would need to start over with how everything is done in our government. Now on top of that they also insist that we should replace our corrupt government with general assemblies, because to them it is the only way that participatory democracy can work.

BTW OWS = About | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street as opposed to the phrase the occupy movement, which is all of the occupy groups nationally, and internationally. If you are just talking about OWS then my observations are even easier to assert.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
The main message that is heard from the occupy movement indeed says that our government is beyond fixing, because they insist that corporation are calling the shots. Havent you been paying attention? Why do you think that I have been suggesting that Liberals start their own movement?

the basic fact that all of the occupy groups are calling for participatory democracy is proof solid that occupiers are calling for replacement of our system. In order for the US to have the participatory democracy that the occupiers are insisting on we would need to start over with how everything is done in our government. Now on top of that they also insist that we should replace our corrupt government with general assemblies, because to them it is the only way that participatory democracy can work.

BTW OWS = About | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street as opposed to the phrase the occupy movement, which is all of the occupy groups nationally, and internationally. If you are just talking about OWS then my observations are even easier to assert.
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I disagree. The Declaration of the Occupation of NYC, which is kinda like the OWS bible, doesn't say anything about our government being hopelessly corrupt, but that we need to assert ourselves into the democratic process which means protests, marches, civil disobediance, etc.

Of course, there will be all sorts of different opinions because OWS is an all inclusive, leaderless movement. It's also an experiment which means we don't know if its actually going to work.
 
FinnMacCool said:
I disagree. The Declaration of the Occupation of NYC, which is kinda like the OWS bible, doesn't say anything about our government being hopelessly corrupt, but that we need to assert ourselves into the democratic process which means protests, marches, civil disobediance, etc.

Of course, there will be all sorts of different opinions because OWS is an all inclusive, leaderless movement. It's also an experiment which means we don't know if its actually going to work.
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Its that same experiment that I am talking about. That experiment as defined by OWS is a type of anarchy. Logically the intention of the experiment is to create a new type of society and a new type of government. Obviously the intention of the experiment is to grow it as an replacement to the society and government that we have now. In fact OWS believes it is already replacing our system of government with the true voice of the people. They view their general assembly as doing what the forefathers of America did. They completely have discredited our government in their eyes and assert that our government is on the same level as the British.

What I am saying is just me parroting the occupy movement. Im not making up anything that anyone with interest cant find on the occupy websites or Leftist forums. One obvious place to look and see what I mean is the site I already linked. another is My FDL | Home . FDL is a large contributor to the occupy movement. They provide financial help to the protesters.

Articles like this: In Year of Uprisings, Reporters Brave Crackdowns from Wall St. to Tahrir Square | MyFDL try to paint a picture that the US government corrupted beyond repair. And despite those that think that the occupy movement is put on by a bunch of dirty hippies, the plan is well thought out.

As you said the occupy movement is an collective movement. The only representation they have is a collective of ideas. Which is where I am getting my information.

ANd then there is this:
Global Square ~ Social Network For Activists Around The World Global Square is expected to be launched in January. To become a member of this social platform, you have to prove yourself trustworthy with the help of a sponsor. Let’s wait till January to see whether Global Square will be able to gather and unite more protestors and activists at the ‘global’ level or not.
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Not what you would call an open ended movement. They dont want anyone but those that have drank the kool-aid.

Effecting Change (what to do: 2012 elections) - New World Networking Say Occupy The below-linked article was posted on August 9, 2011... but nothing has changed, it still holds true today (and for the past several decades).

Essentially (having been for decades, mostly a covert global FASCIST operation), it began its U.S. overt debut with Reagan's first term in 1981. Both Democrats and Republicans are to culpable... question is what to do about it, come the 2012 election?
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Every occupier that I have talked to supports Anon. The message that Anon pimps is obviously in tune with my claims.

 
I forgot to add the recent propaganda by Leftist about the lesser of two evils. In this propaganda Leftists in and out of the occupy movement insist that the lesser of two evils claim justifies starting a revolution to take power away from those that they claim are in power. And Leftists are not shy about asserting that the solution would involve some type of Leftist government. And if they talk about reforming our current government, they want to change enough things to make it easy for Leftists to further their Hugo Chavez like revolution. BTW it is bazaar that Leftists cannot figure out that being an Chavez apologists discredits whatever it is they are talking about.
 
I don't understand how you can possibly put this all on OWS. But, then again, it's impossible to debate someone who has already drawn a conclusion. That's no way to learn anything.
 
FinnMacCool said:
I don't understand how you can possibly put this all on OWS. But, then again, it's impossible to debate someone who has already drawn a conclusion. That's no way to learn anything.
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Havent you already have came to the conclusion that OWS is innocent?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Havent you already have came to the conclusion that OWS is innocent?
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Wrong question.

I still don't see how any of this has to do with OWS. I said it once but, since you have chosen to remain ignorant, I will state it again: OWS is an all inclusive, leaderless movement. Therefore, it does not have a set, pre-designed plan for shaping society in it's image. The reason for this is because as it is an all inclusive, leaderless movement, there are many people with many different opinions. Anybody who claims to be speaking on behalf of OWS is lying. The FDL website, for example, might have it's own opinion and may have even contributed to OWS BUT that does not mean they speak for everyone in OWS. As far as your second post goes, that is just something you pulled out of your behind to try and dismiss OWS.

Let me clarify though by saying that you would have a good point in everything you have said thus far, had it not been for the fact that you say that these things are what OWS is about. That is incorrect. If you want to know what OWS actually, factually stands for, you will have to read the Declaration of Occupation, which I had cited earlier which, to save you some time and energy because you probably will not take the effort to read it anyways, says NOTHING about creating a new society, abolishing the government, or anything that you just said.
 
FinnMacCool said:
Wrong question.

I still don't see how any of this has to do with OWS. I said it once but, since you have chosen to remain ignorant, I will state it again: OWS is an all inclusive, leaderless movement. Therefore, it does not have a set, pre-designed plan for shaping society in it's image. The reason for this is because as it is an all inclusive, leaderless movement, there are many people with many different opinions. Anybody who claims to be speaking on behalf of OWS is lying. The FDL website, for example, might have it's own opinion and may have even contributed to OWS BUT that does not mean they speak for everyone in OWS. As far as your second post goes, that is just something you pulled out of your behind to try and dismiss OWS.

Let me clarify though by saying that you would have a good point in everything you have said thus far, had it not been for the fact that you say that these things are what OWS is about. That is incorrect. If you want to know what OWS actually, factually stands for, you will have to read the Declaration of Occupation, which I had cited earlier which, to save you some time and energy because you probably will not take the effort to read it anyways, says NOTHING about creating a new society, abolishing the government, or anything that you just said.
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I tried the rational approach a while back, its not going to work in this case.
 
FinnMacCool said:
Wrong question.

I still don't see how any of this has to do with OWS. I said it once but, since you have chosen to remain ignorant, I will state it again: OWS is an all inclusive, leaderless movement. Therefore, it does not have a set, pre-designed plan for shaping society in it's image. The reason for this is because as it is an all inclusive, leaderless movement, there are many people with many different opinions. Anybody who claims to be speaking on behalf of OWS is lying. The FDL website, for example, might have it's own opinion and may have even contributed to OWS BUT that does not mean they speak for everyone in OWS. As far as your second post goes, that is just something you pulled out of your behind to try and dismiss OWS.

Let me clarify though by saying that you would have a good point in everything you have said thus far, had it not been for the fact that you say that these things are what OWS is about. That is incorrect. If you want to know what OWS actually, factually stands for, you will have to read the Declaration of Occupation, which I had cited earlier which, to save you some time and energy because you probably will not take the effort to read it anyways, says NOTHING about creating a new society, abolishing the government, or anything that you just said.
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I have read it many times and have previously linked it myself and quoted it. Do not call me ignorant I know a lot about the occupy movement. Perhaps more than you do apparently.
 
Catawba said:
I tried the rational approach a while back, its not going to work in this case.
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By rational he meant dogmatic denial of reality.


Both of you listen up. You are discrediting yourselves by claiming that the occupy movement is all peachy and innocent. We still have the internet, we can all still just google and find everything that I have claimed. You cant claim that a movement is leaderless and has no defined ideology then turn around and claim it is something good. By your own definition the occupy movement is pointless bitching. I find it funny that no one group represents the movement yet I am not talking about one group. I am talking about the collective that is the occupy movement.

This collective:
Occupy Groups (page updated 01-30-12) List Your Group see list your group link under info 99 - New World Networking Say Occupy
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I base my claims on what the majority of those groups are saying publicly on the official websites of each and every occupy group in the world. DO you understand that? I am only parroting the entire occupy movement. The minority are people like you guys that think that its only about reforms. Wake up its all out there straight from the horses mouth. SO dont try to tell me what I do and do not know.

Personally I will not stand by and watch a bunch of Leftist destroy this country and hand it in the laps of the religious right. And your perception of what i know or what you think I am is meaningless.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Both of you listen up.

You cant claim that a movement is leaderless and has no defined ideology then turn around and claim it is something good.

Personally I will not stand by and watch a bunch of Leftist destroy this country and hand it in the laps of the religious right.
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I thought these were the funniest parts!!!! :applaud

Sorry, I can't take your posts seriously anymore.
 
VanceMack said:
Which argument..
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The whole part how you seem that when people protests its nothing but winny little grils.
You seem to think that protests are un American... Am i correct?

.that the pathetic little ****s arent to be feared?
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What?

What...you think they are?
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Protesters speaking their minds in the form of protest. Trying to change the country.

Oh...wait...I get it...I insulted your skinny girl jeans.
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I dont wear "skinny girl jeans"

Too bad...you look like a douche...stop wearing them.
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Ahhh yes....
We have came to this point..
Classic Vance personal attacks...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
The whole part how you seem that when people protests its nothing but winny little grils.
You seem to think that protests are un American... Am i correct?


What?


Protesters speaking their minds in the form of protest. Trying to change the country.


I dont wear "skinny girl jeans"


Ahhh yes....
We have came to this point..
Classic Vance personal attacks...
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not like YOUR original response, right? Hypocrite much? And I guess you missed the prominent picture posted of the whiny bitch 'anarchists'...
 
"The violent clashes have also placed Oakland under nationwide scrutiny, renewed concerns about excessive force and solidified the city’s soiled reputation as a place where protesters and criminals, and even sometimes the police, run amok.

Since the department’s eviction of Occupy Oakland from Frank H. Ogawa Plaza on Oct. 25, it has received hundreds of complaints about police misconduct, including accusations of excessive force and concealed name badges.

The department is still investigating the case of Scott Olsen, an Iraq War veteran whose skull was fractured on Oct. 25 after he was hit by a projectile allegedly fired by the police at the Occupy encampment. Some other accusations of misconduct have prompted lawsuits.

“A lot of these things would be obviated if they followed their own policies,” said Bobbie Stein, a lawyer affiliated with the National Lawyers Guild who helped draft Oakland’s crowd control policy in 2005. The guidelines were developed under federal court supervision after the police fired wooden bullets and shot-filled beanbags at antiwar demonstrators at the Port of Oakland in 2003."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/us/occupy-protesters-stretch-the-oakland-police.html
 
Catawba said:
"The violent clashes have also placed Oakland under nationwide scrutiny, renewed concerns about excessive force and solidified the city’s soiled reputation as a place where protesters and criminals, and even sometimes the police, run amok.

Since the department’s eviction of Occupy Oakland from Frank H. Ogawa Plaza on Oct. 25, it has received hundreds of complaints about police misconduct, including accusations of excessive force and concealed name badges.

The department is still investigating the case of Scott Olsen, an Iraq War veteran whose skull was fractured on Oct. 25 after he was hit by a projectile allegedly fired by the police at the Occupy encampment. Some other accusations of misconduct have prompted lawsuits.

“A lot of these things would be obviated if they followed their own policies,” said Bobbie Stein, a lawyer affiliated with the National Lawyers Guild who helped draft Oakland’s crowd control policy in 2005. The guidelines were developed under federal court supervision after the police fired wooden bullets and shot-filled beanbags at antiwar demonstrators at the Port of Oakland in 2003."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/us/occupy-protesters-stretch-the-oakland-police.html
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So much for the presumption of innocence?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
So much for the presumption of innocence?
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Did you see who made the quote? It wasn't some OWS protester, it was Bobbie Stein, a lawyer affiliated with the National Lawyers Guild who helped draft Oakland’s crowd control policy in 2005.
 
Catawba said:
"The violent clashes have also placed Oakland under nationwide scrutiny, renewed concerns about excessive force and solidified the city’s soiled reputation as a place where protesters and criminals, and even sometimes the police, run amok.
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There are a lot of all encompassing statements in this little part of your opening portion of this post here cat. For instance, when you claim that "the nation" has renewed concerns, it isn't the entire nation in overwhelming numbers. In fact, I would just as easily say that "the nation" sees these Anarchist, and trouble makers for what they are, and doesn't approve of their attacks on law enforcement.

Since the department’s eviction of Occupy Oakland from Frank H. Ogawa Plaza on Oct. 25, it has received hundreds of complaints about police misconduct, including accusations of excessive force and concealed name badges.
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So what? It is a well worn tactic of the progressive left to rack up the complaints, whether warranted or not. Just ask any Mod in here. So this claim means absolutely NOTHING.

The department is still investigating the case of Scott Olsen, an Iraq War veteran whose skull was fractured on Oct. 25 after he was hit by a projectile allegedly fired by the police at the Occupy encampment. Some other accusations of misconduct have prompted lawsuits.
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No it isn't....The dept has concluded that their Sherriff's are not responsible.

Confirmed: Scott Olsen’s Injuries Were NOT Caused By Sheriff’s Deputies | The Gateway Pundit



“A lot of these things would be obviated if they followed their own policies,” said Bobbie Stein, a lawyer affiliated with the National Lawyers Guild who helped draft Oakland’s crowd control policy in 2005. The guidelines were developed under federal court supervision after the police fired wooden bullets and shot-filled beanbags at antiwar demonstrators at the Port of Oakland in 2003."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/us...nd-police.html
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Hmmm...Seems like your NYT article is more about how the OWS crowd are responsible for demanding more police presence, and leaving the rest of the city underserved....Who gives a crap what some leftest lawyer says? Is he the be all, end all? Final word? Or just a useful idiot that you can use to distort his one sentence, while ignoring what the rest of the argument from the times story is saying?....

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
There are a lot of all encompassing statements in this little part of your opening portion of this post here cat. For instance, when you claim that "the nation" has renewed concerns, it isn't the entire nation in overwhelming numbers. In fact, I would just as easily say that "the nation" sees these Anarchist, and trouble makers for what they are, and doesn't approve of their attacks on law enforcement.



So what? It is a well worn tactic of the progressive left to rack up the complaints, whether warranted or not. Just ask any Mod in here. So this claim means absolutely NOTHING.



No it isn't....The dept has concluded that their Sherriff's are not responsible.

Confirmed: Scott Olsen’s Injuries Were NOT Caused By Sheriff’s Deputies | The Gateway Pundit






Hmmm...Seems like your NYT article is more about how the OWS crowd are responsible for demanding more police presence, and leaving the rest of the city underserved....Who gives a crap what some leftest lawyer says? Is he the be all, end all? Final word? Or just a useful idiot that you can use to distort his one sentence, while ignoring what the rest of the argument from the times story is saying?....

j-mac
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Thanks for your opinions, the world can sleep easier now!
 
Catawba said:
Thanks for your opinions, the world can sleep easier now!
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That's it? outright dismissal? So in the light of facts, and shedding light on your lies, you just dismiss it instead of argue your laughable, and wrong points? Well, glad to have your concession, Mods, close the thread.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
That's it? outright dismissal? So in the light of facts, and shedding light on your lies, you just dismiss it instead of argue your laughable, and wrong points? Well, glad to have your concession, Mods, close the thread.


j-mac
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Not interested in your bs today. Sorry!
 
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