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Thread: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Money is the root of it all.
    If the product is to be viable, and so very few if any are actually developing the technology... once said technology is developed those with a monopoly on this type of product would stand to make lots of money.

    Which means, why wouldn't private companies invest in this? Might it be because it isn't all that viable, and won't be all that profitable?
    No, that's where positive externalities come in. A positive externality is a benefit of a business activity that the business can't charge for. So, for example, you could have a company that provides a service that generates $100 a year in profit for them, but also generates $100 in positive externalities. If it costs $150 to run the company, it will stop operating because it is losing $50 a year. But, overall, the company operating actually generates $50 of profit per year, it's just that the company can't capture that profit.

    So that's where the government needs to step in. To find a way to help the company realize that profit. Maybe by subsidizing the product, maybe by somehow forcing the people who benefit to pay for that benefit, maybe by helping the company exclude those who don't pay from getting the benefit, etc. The market alone won't correctly pick which companies should survive if there are uncontrolled positive externalities in the mix.

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy
    How much money did the taxpayers lose this time???
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    First to the moon? NASA or Haliburton?
    .... is this supposed to be supporting your side of the argument?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post

    So that's where the government needs to step in. To find a way to help the company realize that profit. Maybe by subsidizing the product, maybe by somehow forcing the people who benefit to pay for that benefit, maybe by helping the company exclude those who don't pay from getting the benefit, etc. The market alone won't correctly pick which companies should survive if there are uncontrolled positive externalities in the mix.
    And more bail outs are in the works?

    These large sums of money are not being given away to fix anything. It's flat out robbery of the American people, period

    Let them fail and let the bloodbath begin. Otherwise no one on Wall Street learns from their mistakes.

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    .... is this supposed to be supporting your side of the argument?
    Very much so. What do you see as my arguement?

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What? No, I didn't say that...

    The measure of success is the positive externalities generated. The issue is that you guys are trying to measure it's success based on success in the market. That's the wrong measure. Certainly, the company needs to survive to generate positive externalities, but it could be that only 1 in 100 companies survive, but that one invents a kind of solar cell that produces twice as much electricity, and then it would all be way worth it.

    Even private venture capital firms in high tech industries shoot for something like 5% success in their investments. To try to pretend that the whole program must be a failure because a couple companies go bankrupt is ridiculous.



    Yes, yes... So right wing pundits blather all the time...



    Obviously that doesn't make sense.... It isn't like you just invent the electric car and then that's that, no more need to develop them any further... That attitude would have left us driving Model T's still...
    It didn't take one dollar of subsidy money for the Model T to become the Lincoln Mark IV, the Boss 429 or any modern Ford. Nor did it take subsidy to produce the Nissan all-electric Leaf.

    The Obama insanity was to throw $500,000,000! on a project to build - in FINLAND claiming NO American facility has car manufacturing ability - an electric car expected to retail for over $100,000 - meaning a pipe dream that the rich would care about gas prices and buy them - spending literally $250,000,000 EACH for the TWO that were produced.

    (But the most eye-opening welfare for the rich has been handouts to auto millionaires like Fisker Automotive’s Henrik Fisker and Tesla’s Elon Musk — builders of electric chariots for the well-to-do. Fisker has received $529 million in taxpayer money and Tesla $465 million.)
    http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electr...tric-car/index

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It didn't take one dollar of subsidy money for the Model T to become the Lincoln Mark IV, the Boss 429 or any modern Ford. Nor did it take subsidy to produce the Nissan all-electric Leaf.
    You seem to be just ignoring my whole argument. Positive externalities. The market doesn't take positive externalities into account on it's own. What is your response?

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    And more bail outs are in the works?
    Bailouts? What? Do you have a response to the positive externalities argument?

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Who were the private investors who started the internet? Who were the private investors who created the GPS satellite system? Who were the private investors who started manned space flight? Who were the private investors who started nuclear power generation? The list goes on and on. There is a long history of our government investing in technology that ended up changing the world.

    The government also funds a LOT of medical research. Obviously it doesn't all pan out. Does that mean it isn't worth doing?

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Obviously it doesn't all pan out. Does that mean it isn't worth doing?
    It is one thing to think there is a good plan and later find out you were wrong and there were flaws. It is quite another to have those flaws pointed out to you before it became a crisis and you actively oppose efforts to correct the system. All the while using it to reap financial and political rewards.

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