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Thread: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It's weird we have to keep explaining to you guys that not every investment is going to be a winner. That's how the market works. If a company were a sure thing to be wildly profitable, there wouldn't be any point in the government investing in it, private investors would already be doing that. The whole goal with this thing is to try to push innovation along faster than the market would on its own. So if none of the companies we were investing in were going bankrupt you would know we were not really hitting the right mark. We need to aim right at the bleeding edge to try to tip companies from the "won't make it" category over into the "will make it category".
    1 First and foremost, our government needs to focus on growing the economy. No, I'm not talking about dumping money into businesses, I'm talking about making it easy to run a profitable business...

    2 It has been proven time and time again that the private sector can produce 2-3 times more return on a dollar invested/used, than does the government when it is taken in taxes.

    3 If the private sector does not *see a return and all indicators are pointing towards a crappy deal then why pursue it?

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'll have to note that this (bolded above) is an entirely different arguement than Solyndra could succeed. Great, if there are large numbers who think the technology is viable, invest in research that would help further it. Don't put money into something everyone agree's is going to fail.
    If there are “large numbers who think the technology is viable”, let them invest their own money in research that would help further it. Government has no business investing taxpayer money in high-risk ventures.
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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    If there are “large numbers who think the technology is viable”, let them invest their own money in research that would help further it. Government has no business investing taxpayer money in high-risk ventures.
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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    1 First and foremost, our government needs to focus on growing the economy. No, I'm not talking about dumping money into businesses, I'm talking about making it easy to run a profitable business...

    2 It has been proven time and time again that the private sector can produce 2-3 times more return on a dollar invested/used, than does the government when it is taken in taxes.

    3 If the private sector does not *see a return and all indicators are pointing towards a crappy deal then why pursue it?
    The government isn't trying to just invest in profitable companies to make a profit, it is trying to boost up companies that produce positive externalities.

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    If there are “large numbers who think the technology is viable”, let them invest their own money in research that would help further it. Government has no business investing taxpayer money in high-risk ventures.
    A generational leap in battery technology is going to be worth trillions of dollars. Finding that technology will inevitably involve some lines of development and research that dead-end.

    Would you prefer America or China figure it out first?
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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy


    Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy - The Hill's E2-Wire

    More evidence that the DOE should not be blowing taxpayer money just because the investment has the potential to be "green". When will the government learn it can't sustain a capital-destructive industry by mis-allocating taxpayer money for good intentions? Two board members, including the Chairman, were former GM executives. I'm interested to see if company officials were former campaign donors like the previous disaster.

    Let these companies raise their money through venture capitalists and stock offerings. They certainly shouldn't be getting any taxpayer money. Borrowing from venture capitalists and going public requires a whole lot more scrutiny than our government has given. Quite obviously.
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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It's weird we have to keep explaining to you guys that not every investment is going to be a winner. That's how the market works. If a company were a sure thing to be wildly profitable, there wouldn't be any point in the government investing in it, private investors would already be doing that. The whole goal with this thing is to try to push innovation along faster than the market would on its own. So if none of the companies we were investing in were going bankrupt you would know we were not really hitting the right mark. We need to aim right at the bleeding edge to try to tip companies from the "won't make it" category over into the "will make it category".
    What a bizarre concept! The measure of success is found in the number of government-directed businesses going bankrupt. The more bankruptcies and lose of public funds, the more successful the program is? That really is straining to defend what cannot be defended.

    There is no defense for stupidity in subsidizing what turns out to be total economic failures. Your view of it is the effort that counts is exactly wrong. Anyone can do stupid things and make stupid decisions. Thus there is no reason to congratulate failure nor defend it.

    The other problem is that it all is a huge graft scam and theft of public funds in return for a small percentage as partisan political contributions. There are already electric cars made entirely without subsidy. Thus, the subsidies were entirely unnecessary for anything other than as a method of obtaining political graft payoffs.
    Last edited by joko104; 01-26-12 at 05:47 PM.

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    A generational leap in battery technology is going to be worth trillions of dollars. Finding that technology will inevitably involve some lines of development and research that dead-end.

    Would you prefer America or China figure it out first?
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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    What a bizarre concept! The measure of success is found in the number of government-directed businesses going bankrupt. The more bankruptcies and lose of public funds, the more successful the program is? That really is straining to defend what cannot be defended.
    What? No, I didn't say that...

    The measure of success is the positive externalities generated. The issue is that you guys are trying to measure it's success based on success in the market. That's the wrong measure. Certainly, the company needs to survive to generate positive externalities, but it could be that only 1 in 100 companies survive, but that one invents a kind of solar cell that produces twice as much electricity, and then it would all be way worth it.

    Even private venture capital firms in high tech industries shoot for something like 5% success in their investments. To try to pretend that the whole program must be a failure because a couple companies go bankrupt is ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The other problem is that it all is a huge graft scam and theft of public funds in return for a small percentage as partisan political contributions.
    Yes, yes... So right wing pundits blather all the time...

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There are already electric cars made entirely without subsidy. Thus, the subsidies were entirely unnecessary for anything other than as a method of obtaining political graft payoffs.
    Obviously that doesn't make sense.... It isn't like you just invent the electric car and then that's that, no more need to develop them any further... That attitude would have left us driving Model T's still...

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    Re: Obama-backed electric car battery-maker files for bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You don't understand. The government isn't just trying to pick winners. They aren't trying to make money by investing in the stock market or something. They're trying to increase and speed up the development of green technology.

    Are you familiar with the concept of a positive externality? When an economic endeavor would create positive externalities, then the role of government is to help companies capture some of those externalities. That's what they're doing here, not day trading.
    Money is the root of it all.
    If the product is to be viable, and so very few if any are actually developing the technology... once said technology is developed those with a monopoly on this type of product would stand to make lots of money.

    Which means, why wouldn't private companies invest in this? Might it be because it isn't all that viable, and won't be all that profitable?

    If the government's examples are any proof..... those who would have otherwise invested in these sort of businesses are sitting back thinking about how fortunate they are that they didn't get involved.
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