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State of the Union Address

Harry Guerrilla said:
You have to add in changes in behavior.
Something that isn't easy to account for, but has been proven to lower costs.

It tends to reduce, unnecessary use.
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Your assumption is that the typical elderly person has the medical knowledge necessary to distinguish between necessary and unnecessary care. Got a pain in the abdomen? Maybe it'll go away and you can save some money. Ooops! Turns out it was metastatic cancer.

Not a great idea. That's what primary care doctors are for.
 
Free_Radical said:
Technically speaking, those are future liabilities, so they aren't responsible for any debt we've incurred thus far; however, in the event those special-issue Treasury Securities are redeemed, they will have to be financed with debt or tax revenues.
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Now you are getting the picture!
 
AdamT said:
What is the difference between SS backed by treasuries and SS backed by a warehouse full of cash money?
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There is a significant difference. A Treasury Security is basically an acknowledgement by the Federal government of its indebtedness to the holder of the security. In the case of the SS "trust fund", the issuer and the holder, that is, the borrower and the lender, are the same entity, e.g., the Federal government. In essence, the Federal government is acknowledging its indebtedness to itself. A warehouse full of "cash money", on the other hand, is a real economic asset that can be used to pay the liabilities incurred by SS.

Brian
 
AdamT said:
If treasuries are no good you might as well just tear up your check book and all your other accounts, because they're not worth the paper they're written on.

What is the difference between SS backed by treasuries and SS backed by a warehouse full of cash money?

A: there is no difference. Treasuries are as good (or bad) as cash.

Amazing that you would continue to support the failures of conservatism and blind hyperpartisanship.
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You don't seem to understand that the govt. prints money and that makes the current value less thus hurts all taxpayers. Plus the fact that our national debt today is more than your yearly GDP. Guess it doesn't affect a liberal that your dollar is going to be basically worth a lot less because of liberalism. What the hell, just print more of it.
 
AdamT said:
Your assumption is that the typical elderly person has the medical knowledge necessary to distinguish between necessary and unnecessary care. Got a pain in the abdomen? Maybe it'll go away and you can save some money. Ooops! Turns out it was metastatic cancer.

Not a great idea. That's what primary care doctors are for.
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Going to the doc for a cold, when there is nothing the doc can do, is a waste of medical resources.

I'm sorry but you can't "fear" me out of the this position.
There is no perfect answer.
 
Catawba said:
Now you are getting the picture!
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If you aren't going to address the points I've made by providing a substantive analysis, then I'll simply forgo any future attempts to have a rational dialog with you.

Brian
 
Free_Radical said:
There is a significant difference. A Treasury Security is basically an acknowledgement by the Federal government of its indebtedness to the holder of the security. In the case of the SS "trust fund", the issuer and the holder, that is, the borrower and the lender, are the same entity, e.g., the Federal government. In essence, the Federal government is acknowledging its indebtedness to itself. A warehouse full of "cash money", on the other hand, is a real economic asset that can be used to pay the liabilities incurred by SS.

Brian
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And what gives cash value? It's just paper, right? What makes it worth more than a knapkin?

A: it's backed by the U.S. Treasury -- just like Treasuries. ;)
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
No.
I mean making Medicare beneficiaries, pay more for their services, that they use.
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That is not lowering cost, that is transferring costs to those that can least afford it.
 
AdamT said:
And what gives cash value? It's just paper, right? What makes it worth more than a knapkin?

A: it's backed by the U.S. Treasury -- just like Treasuries. ;)
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What exactly does that mean? So it is backed meaning that the people will get the dollars associated with the obligations owed them, the question is however what will those dollars be worth?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Going to the doc for a cold, when there is nothing the doc can do, is a waste of medical resources.

I'm sorry but you can't "fear" me out of the this position.
There is no perfect answer.
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Problem is, people who don't understand that the doctor can't cure a cold ... still aren't going to understand it if they have to pay more to go to the doctor. I'm not trying to scare you out of your position. But I don't want your position to scare people from going to see the doctor if they're sick. Famous last words: "ah, it's probably just heartburn."
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
You think incurring debt, in the name of people who have no say, is alright?
More telling about you than anything else.
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So by your reasoning, I am not responsible for the debt for our excessive military spending, or the optional wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq?
 
AdamT said:
And what gives cash value? It's just paper, right? What makes it worth more than a knapkin?
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Well, our money is given its value by its monopoly status, but that's neither here nor there. The point is that "cash money" is a real economic asset that can be used to pay down the liabilities incurred by SS, whereas Treasury Securities are nothing more than government debt, which is the exact opposite of a government asset; indeed, a Treasury Security is a government liability.

A: it's backed by the U.S. Treasury -- just like Treasuries. ;)
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I think you're a bit confused. Treasury Securities are not assets on the government's balance sheet, they are liabilities. "Cash money", on the other hand, is an economic asset. That's the difference between financing the SS "trust fund" with Treasuries and cash. One is government borrowing and the other is not.

Brian
 
Hare said:
As usual with Obama, Delivery was an A, Content a C or D.
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what about the speech content did you find lacking
 
Conservative said:
Yes, do you have a problem with that? Why should the Govt. take any part of that money instead of allowing the individual that took the risk to spend it as they see fit?
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Same reason anyone pays taxes. They benefit from government services, so they contribute to paying for them. It's not a secret.

:coffeepap
 
Catawba said:
Your point was addressed here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/117590-state-union-address-51.html#post1060145114
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That has absolutely no relevance to our initial contention concerning SS expenditures and debt. It is another line of argumentation entirely that concerns the nature of the SS "trust fund".

I think this exchange has run its course and I'll make a mental note of your refusal to engage in rational and consistent dialog.

Brian
 
AdamT said:
Problem is, people who don't understand that the doctor can't cure a cold ... still aren't going to understand it if they have to pay more to go to the doctor. I'm not trying to scare you out of your position. But I don't want your position to scare people from going to see the doctor if they're sick. Famous last words: "ah, it's probably just heartburn."
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Do you want a perfect answer?
Should we reduce cost sharing instead?

You do know there is cost sharing, in Medicare, now.

It encourages people to know more about their medical issues than they would otherwise.
 
Catawba said:
So by your reasoning, I am not responsible for the debt for our excessive military spending, or the optional wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq?
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You were at least born and had a chance at having a say.
The comparison is not equivalent.

I, nor anyone else in my generation had a say.
 
Dickieboy said:
Again, false premise. Workers losing a job is a loss of revenue source but his ability to generate revenue from another employer is not reduced. There are laws that require employers to PAY employees for labor worked, receiving revenue. There are no laws to protect investors revenue. If an investment is lost its lost WITHOUT the ability to generate revenue somewhere else, ESPECIALLY if a business fails.
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An investor, or an owner of a business is completely lost either when a business fails. They too can either go to work for someone else, or if they're good at this, regroup and try again. There are even places that help small business. In fact, here, we help them all the time, right out of the college funds. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
Same reason anyone pays taxes. They benefit from government services, so they contribute to paying for them. It's not a secret.

:coffeepap
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What benefits the economy is a growing economy and job creation. Investment capital is designed to do both
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Reducing spending and slightly increasing taxes to pay the interest plus a little more principle, is all that is necessary.
Of course we can just inflate our way out of it.
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That's pretty much just sustaining the current balancing, not substantially reducing it.

Inflating our way out is what got is in...

The government lovvvvvvvvvvesssss inflation so much so that they create it by printing, printing, printing, printing, printing...well...you dig what I'm saying.
 
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