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Thread: State of the Union Address

  1. #531
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You were at least born and had a chance at having a say.
    The comparison is not equivalent.

    I, nor anyone else in my generation had a say.
    So are you saying a taxpayer should be exempted from paying taxes on any debt taken on by the government before his birth? Is that what you are proposing?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The elderly have more total wealth but as a rule they have little or no earned INCOME. They rely on the fixed income derived from their wealth to get by.
    Average income for the elderly is approximately $30k a year.
    Seeing that their expenses like housing are nearly always 0 and theirs costs to raising children are again, almost 0.

    Their effective income level is higher than that of someone with children and paying a mortgage, while working.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So are you saying a taxpayer should be exempted from paying taxes on any debt taken on by the government before his birth? Is that what you are proposing?
    No, I'm proposing we make cuts to current programs to balance the budget.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What benefits the economy is a growing economy and job creation. Investment capital is designed to do both
    Where is the growing economy and jobs then from the last 10 years of the Bush tax cuts?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Okay, here is how it works. For decades our payroll taxes have exceeded the amount necessary fund SS on a day-to-day basis. So what happens to that surplus? On the one had, Treasury could take that cash money and fill up warehouses with it -- the warehouses of cash. But with inflation, cash naturally loses value over time. So what they do -- by law -- is pay that cash to the Treasury in return for Treasury notes that at least pay some interest. The cash is *converted* into Treasury notes. The treasury notes can be converted back to cash to pay for SS benefits when necessary. The ledger would not be different if they skipped the conversion step, except to the extent that SS would lose the interest payments.
    Do you not understand that a US Treasury Security is a liability on the government's balance sheet? It is an acknowledgement of indebtedness by the issuer of the note to the holder of the note and a promise to repay the principal with interest after a certain amount of time, but in the case of the SS "trust fund", the issuer and the holder of the note, that is, the borrower and the lender, respectively, are the same entity, e.g., the Federal government. That's why it's called "intragovernemntal debt", and debt is not an asset, it's a liability. Cash, on the other hand, is the very definition of an asset, and the most liquid of all assets.

    Brian
    Last edited by Free_Radical; 01-25-12 at 08:11 PM.

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So do you support the current structure, where the average senior is wealthier and the average less wealthy people should pay for them?
    I know before you said you don't like regressive taxes.

    Have you changed your stance on this?
    The only way we can reduce our health care costs significantly is the same way every other industrialized nation has reduced their costs, through a single payer system.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Where is the growing economy and jobs then from the last 10 years of the Bush tax cuts?
    GDP grew from 9.9 trillion to 14.4 trillion in 8 years of Bush, name for me any other modern day President that had a 4.5 trillion increase in GDP. You need to stop buying the leftwing rhetoric and get the facts. BEA.gov will give you economic growth numbers. Oh, by the way, Bush had a net job gain, Obama has a net job loss along with a declining labor force with over a million discouraged workers each and every month.

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No, I'm proposing we make cuts to current programs to balance the budget.
    If writing off our $2.6 trillion dollar debt to seniors and transferring health care costs on those than cannot afford them, I am not interested.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post
    Do you not understand that a US Treasury Security is a liability on the government's balance sheet? It is an acknowledgement by the issuer of the note of indebtedness to the holder of the note and a promise to repay the principal with interest after a certain amount of time, but in the case of the SS "trust fund", the issuer and the holder of the note, that is, the borrower and the lender, respectively, are the same entity, e.g., the Federal government. That's why it's called "intragovernemntal debt", and debt is not an asset, it's a liability. Cash, on the other hand, is the very definition of an asset, and the most liquid of all assets.

    Brian
    Yes, I do understand that. And so is cash. Capiche? In this case they are not issuing treasuries out of thin air. They are issuing them *in exchange for* cash.

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The only way we can reduce our health care costs significantly is the same way every other industrialized nation has reduced their costs, through a single payer system.
    You keep repeating this, but it's just not true.
    It doesn't matter how many times you do repeat it.

    There are other economic models, which show that you can reduce medical industry expenditures.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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