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Thread: State of the Union Address

  1. #1221
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Another liberal lacking reading comprehension.

    Nobody in this thread is challenging the separate entity thing.

    One ignorant poster claims double taxation didn’t exist.
    If you don't stop making personal attacks, I'm going to hit the alert button on you!!!

    And plenty of rightwingers have challenged the seperate entity "thing". They have said it doesn't matter. Please stop posting such dishonest fictions

    Also, severala posters have pointed out that double taxation doesn't exist. If you can't keep up with the discussion, you should bow out. Your dishonest posts are destroying your credibility
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #1222
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    That must be why stocks there are stocks with high dividends, because people dont want dividends. Most yes, not all.
    I didn't say "no one buys stocks in order to receive dividends"

    Reading comprehension is fundamental
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #1223
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, you're the one who changed his statement. You originally argued that businesses always reinvested to make more money or continue making money. Now, you've changed it to "businesses always want to make money".
    I didn’t change anything. You foolishly pointed out that sometimes business lost money as if that is a defense for anything. I pointed out that yes, sometimes they do lose money. But they don’t invest in the company with the motivation being to lose money. No position change occurred. You are wrong again.

    And ironically, even that is not true, as my subsidiary example shows. Some businesses aren't designed to make a profit. They're designed to increase the profits of a different corp.
    But even in this case, they take actions hoping the net gain is a profit. They have one holding lose money so that it effects the tax brackets and overall profitability of the other entity.

  4. #1224
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I didn't say "no one buys stocks in order to receive dividends"

    Reading comprehension is fundamental
    So you didnt have a point. Understood. Just because only some people buy stocks for dividends doesnt mean its ok to tax the crud out of them.

    Lets go over profit in a small business for a moment...where do you suppose the money that the business owner withdraws comes from, if not profit? A money tree?

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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Both are totally separate forms of income, how is that double taxation?
    Say I am Mike, and I own Mike's Lemonade Stand.

    Mike's Lemonade Stand LLC did well this year, and brought in 1 Million Dollars. I must be doing well, the company brought in a MILLION!!! I am going to pay myself monthly payments of $8333.33, because I think I am worth it. After all, I did start a business that contributes to society. That is going to give me a yearly income of 100,000 and the government is going to tax that too. Uncle Sam is going to get 35,000 before the day is done. That is ok though...my company still brought in 900,000. Then there are my employees and general cost of business. Let's assume I am running a 30% margin. That allows for expansion and overall good feelings. So out of the 1 Million my company brought in, about 300,000 of that was profit. Not bad. Uncle Sam will surely want a piece. Now that profit is at 195,000 as Uncle Sam took 35% or $105,000. Ok. We still have 195,000 to build the business with, and that isn't anything to sneeze at. But then again, I did work 80 hour weeks for 3 years, didn't eat for 2 of those, and slept at my desk since I couldn't afford an appartment when I started. I should buy myself a small cottage on the mountain, something to enjoy after all of my efforts, because if I failed, I wouldn't have a damn thing and no one would take care of me. So I take out 100,000 in profits to pay the investors...me. Uncle Sam wants 15,000 from that too. So in the course of the year, my income was taxed, my companies income was taxed, and then when I paid myself for my risk, that got taxed to the tune of $155,000. Not to mention, before I gave myself a risk reward, the pile of money was taxed by the government.

    Double Taxation.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  6. #1226
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    a business that reinvests just so they don't show a profit is screwy. you only reinvest to increase/continue profits, not to avoid them.
    Companies pay out dividends all the time under our current method of taxation. This idea that companies don't because of double taxation is incorrect. They shouldn't be the preferred method of use so there is a "penalty" for sending out dividends.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  7. #1227
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I didn’t change anything. You foolishly pointed out that sometimes business lost money as if that is a defense for anything. I pointed out that yes, sometimes they do lose money. But they don’t invest in the company with the motivation being to lose money. No position change occurred. You are wrong again.
    Your post was dishonest. You claimed that everything a business does was meant to increase or maintain its' profits. I proved that you are wrong. Then you changed your claim to "all businesses want to make a profit". I proved that was also wrong.

    You just can't admit it



    But even in this case, they take actions hoping the net gain is a profit. They have one holding lose money so that it effects the tax brackets and overall profitability of the other entity.
    No, in the case I described, the subsidiary is not taking any action to increase its' profits. They are *deliberately* incurring losses.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #1228
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    So you didnt have a point. Understood. Just because only some people buy stocks for dividends doesnt mean its ok to tax the crud out of them.

    Lets go over profit in a small business for a moment...where do you suppose the money that the business owner withdraws comes from, if not profit? A money tree?
    It's obvious that you understood nothing
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #1229
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Say I am Mike, and I own Mike's Lemonade Stand.

    Mike's Lemonade Stand LLC did well this year, and brought in 1 Million Dollars. I must be doing well, the company brought in a MILLION!!! I am going to pay myself monthly payments of $8333.33, because I think I am worth it. After all, I did start a business that contributes to society. That is going to give me a yearly income of 100,000 and the government is going to tax that too. Uncle Sam is going to get 35,000 before the day is done. That is ok though...my company still brought in 900,000. Then there are my employees and general cost of business. Let's assume I am running a 30% margin. That allows for expansion and overall good feelings. So out of the 1 Million my company brought in, about 300,000 of that was profit. Not bad. Uncle Sam will surely want a piece. Now that profit is at 195,000 as Uncle Sam took 35% or $105,000. Ok. We still have 195,000 to build the business with, and that isn't anything to sneeze at. But then again, I did work 80 hour weeks for 3 years, didn't eat for 2 of those, and slept at my desk since I couldn't afford an appartment when I started. I should buy myself a small cottage on the mountain, something to enjoy after all of my efforts, because if I failed, I wouldn't have a damn thing and no one would take care of me. So I take out 100,000 in profits to pay the investors...me. Uncle Sam wants 15,000 from that too. So in the course of the year, my income was taxed, my companies income was taxed, and then when I paid myself for my risk, that got taxed to the tune of $155,000. Not to mention, before I gave myself a risk reward, the pile of money was taxed by the government.

    Double Taxation.
    Nope. Your income was taxed, and so was Mikes' Lemonade Stand.

    Single taxation
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #1230
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    Re: State of the Union Address

    The rationale for the double tax on dividends isn't hard to grasp. Corporations can deduct payroll expenses because payroll expenses take away from net profit. Dividends, OTOH, do not take away from net profit. Dividends ARE net profits that are simply being distributed to shareholders. That's one of the down sides to the corporate form. Of course the benefit is that shareholders can't be held liable for corporate losses or other liabilities.
    Last edited by AdamT; 01-27-12 at 04:24 PM.

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